FULL TRANSCRIPT

Depending on which camp you’re in, you’re either great with change or you hate change.

And no doubt about it, divorce is a change in every way.

But how psyched would you be if we told you that you can master change with five mindset hacks?

I mean, I think I’m pretty good at dealing with change, but I’m always up for a good life hack.

0:20

So that’s exactly what we’re talking about in today’s episode of the Divorce Etc… podcast.

We’re the eEXPERTS, Jessica and T.H.

We help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life.

Let’s bring in today’s guest.

Hey everybody, it’s T.H. the other part of exEXPERTS we are.

0:39

I don’t even remember How I Met Jenny Stevens, but I am so glad that I did.

I think she and I sat on the phone our first time for like well over an hour, not even talking about we we shared our divorce stories, but then we moved on to just life and a lot of the things that she said really resonated with me.

0:56

So why should I keep her all to myself?

So we are sharing her with you today.

She is a licensed clinical professional counselor slash therapist slash so many other things.

So she’s going to introduce herself to all of you right now right before we get into our top five mindset hacks.

1:14

So welcome to divorce etcetera.

Well, thank you.

Thank you both for having me.

I’m so, so excited to be here.

So why don’t you tell everybody what it is?

Yeah, OK.

I know I’m all these things.

I’m a licensed clinical professional counselor turned personal and professional coach, and I help people navigate significant changes in their life, whether it be divorced, loss, trauma, illnesses, or just, you know, anything because we all, all of us go through so many different changes in our lifetime.

1:46

Yeah, I think everybody’s always up for a good hack, but like, how did you come up with the idea of like being able to master change with these specific 5 mindset hacks?

I think the short answer is that everybody wants to change a few things about themselves.

2:05

I think we don’t actually fundamentally change, but I firmly believe that if we change daily habits and behaviors to show up differently, then we do change our life.

Ultimately, I think that the majority of time people listen to your ego or that unconscious little messages like can you really do this?

2:25

You’re really going to go for it.

And 80% of the time we listen to those fears and those insecurities and we don’t decide to actually make those tweaks and changes doesn’t actually show up differently in life.

OK, I mean, so I think.

It’s really about like, and I’ll, you know, get into it when we’re ready, but it’s about making the decisions and changing the way we think about things and not overthink it and actually take action, inspired action to do things.

2:51

Differently I feel like that has a little bit to do with self-confidence right and taking a plunge to try something new to make a change to acknowledge that this might be necessary for me or not even necessary just healthy for me this might be good this might be fun this could lead down a whole other path for me and and kind of shift perspective you know we always talk about divorce is an opportunity and our divorce stories don’t empower us I mean sorry Oh my God, that’s.

3:24

That’s a lot.

They.

Do empower us.

They don’t define us.

I’m sorry, I’m a little off today.

Everybody said just bear with me.

It’s Friday.

So let’s get into it.

What’s your #1 mindset hack?

So it’s decide it’s.

You have to make a decision and decide what you want, whether it is a divorce, whether it is changing your health, your financial situation, relationship.

3:49

But you have to decide on what you do want.

And all too often people overthink this.

They think, oh, I have to lose 50 lbs, not 10 lbs.

Oh, I need to eat healthier and then not eat anything good.

And like, you have to decide.

And I say bring it down to the basic like I think 8 of 10 of my clients will say to me, I actually want to think differently about what I can and can’t do.

4:11

I want to not live in fear.

I want to just go for it.

So if it was just that easy to decide one or two things that you want to change or one or two things that you want to achieve, get clear on those few things and only think about those things.

Don’t worry so much about how am I going to do this, when and what and will I succeed or don’t succeed.

4:32

But if you think, if you focus and think about what you desire the most, then I encourage you to focus on what you do want, not of what what you don’t want.

Because when we think of, oh, I need to change this, we say, oh, I don’t want it.

I don’t want to work hard or I think I’m going to fail or is this going to work?

4:50

And that is all lack and insecurity.

And the opposite of that thought is I can do it.

It’s going to be amazing.

Not so sure how I’m going to get there exactly, but I will get there.

So it’s really back to think about what 7 and 8 and 10 year olds or five year olds do.

5:07

They just go for it.

They don’t think about it.

They’re pretty literally.

Anybody out there with children, they just throw on the Choo Choo.

They throw on the funny looking glasses.

They may or may not shower.

They go up and walk up to somebody and start talking.

If we sort of go back to like what’s playful about being a child and not think so much about what other people think and just go back to the basics, decide what you want and do it and don’t listen to all those ego messages that are like, but you’re the answer is yes.

5:39

But you also say, like with that you already said, you know, don’t really focus on how you’re going to get there, but visualize the end at all times.

And so how does someone even get to that point to be able to visualize the what, what part of the end are they thinking about?

5:59

Is it like some, you know, look and we’re mostly focused on divorce, but also the things that come along with it.

It’s very common that someone will be getting divorced.

And that in and of itself is kind of a push to like lose weight, get in shape, change their nutrition and that sort of thing.

6:16

So you’re saying like visualize yourself having lost the weight, visualize yourself like looking different.

I mean, what does that actually mean for people?

Yes, yes, yes.

So I’ll use the example.

Let’s say you are going through a divorce and you have children with your ex.

6:33

Many of my divorced clients will say I just want to feel calm and peaceful while I divorce.

So and so I want to have a good healthy Co parenting with my ex.

Those are two things that I wanted when I got my divorce.

And if you just focus on the calm and the grounded piece is what everybody wants more of.

6:54

And if that is your major desired result, we you will focus and reverse engineer what it means to feel calm and grounded and healthy during your divorce.

So yes, you’re thinking when I sign those papers, it will be a great parenting plan.

7:10

When I go into mediation or collab meetings, I will be feeling good.

And if I fall apart, I fall apart.

I will be OK either way.

But you’re focusing on like in this example, I want to feel calm and peaceful and grounded during my divorce.

And you don’t think about, OK, what if we say this or what if I don’t get this night or what if I can’t go to?

7:32

You’re only thinking about the end result.

And so, and if that is a very powerful thing to do, so you basically ignore and or notice the insecurities your your ego and notice that they’re happening, but you quiet them because if you believe your negative thoughts or your insecurities, you will just as likely not make any progress and you will stay in the stuck zone.

7:57

The only thing that’s different between people who actually make shit happen.

I’m sorry.

I want to apologize, Go.

For it.

If you, the only difference for the people that make shit happen is that they decide to do it, they commit to do it, and they take inspired action.

I mean, Google, right?

8:14

So no, you’re right.

But it’s like, is it that that also often times with divorce, people are getting so bogged down in The Dirty details and the minutia that like they can’t see the bigger picture?

Correct.

8:30

I mean, not seeing the force between the trees is really different.

It is a real thing in divorce.

I mean, I know personally, I know professionally that is a legit thing.

What are you going to do to take care of yourself, to look at the big picture?

Are you going to dedicate just an hour a day to look at your divorce papers and talk to your attorney or your coach, your therapist?

8:48

I always say structure times, dedicate time for the divorce.

You can’t think about it all the time.

You have to dedicate those certain times with your divorce professionals and then live a life like we are not going to define ourselves just because I’m going through divorce.

So life’s going to suck while I go to my divorce.

9:04

Come on, you know, and guess what?

The skills that we build when we find out somebody had an affair and somebody’s using money for their new girlfriend and the boyfriend and the the kids didn’t sleep because my ex fed them Wendy’s for dinner and not the organic milk that I wanted, which we all, you know, do.

9:21

It’s like, so be it.

That is the that’s welcome to Co parenting people, right?

And we, we are OK.

No one’s going to die if they eat McDonald’s or something.

You know, no one’s going to die if they stay up later at mom or dad’s house and vice versa.

So it’s exercising that muscle that your mindset when people behave and do stuff that we don’t like, it’s only because we can’t take it personally.

9:44

It’s what they’re choosing to do and it’s for them.

It’s not about what we’re it’s not.

It’s not you.

Have to separate that, right?

And it’s not a easy to do, but then you say to commit like what are the things that you need to stop doing and start doing?

10:01

Well, so that’s the question I asked each of my clients.

I’ll say to them, you know, let’s really get crystal clear on what you do want and then what are the things that you need to stop doing that are preventing you from doing that.

So I’ll give you an example.

If we use the I want to be more peaceful and grounded despite my divorce or despite cancer or despite my annoying neighbor, right?

10:20

This isn’t just a divorce.

Going through a divorce.

If I want to feel calm and grounded, well, the things I’m doing that don’t make me feel calm and grounded typically are I’m scrolling through social media, I’m staying up too late watching Netflix.

I might be drinking every night, and not just on the occasional basis.

10:38

I might be hanging around toxic people.

I might be eating like crap.

I hope.

Everybody is taking notes because the everyone, these are such like good little Nuggets of like so many people doing so many of these things and not thinking about tying it together.

10:55

So I want to say one quick thing though.

Yeah, it’s OK if you’re doing those things.

Just acknowledge that you’re doing those.

Things I realize.

Once you have clarity, then you can be accountable to yourself.

11:12

Once you like literally put it out into the universe, you write it down in a journal, you share with a friend, you share with a therapist, whatever that thing is that you’re maybe embarrassed that you do.

So you don’t want to tell everybody, tell somebody.

So that that’s how once you acknowledge it, then you can change it.

11:32

Cause for so many years, I know Jessica and I were like fully in denial about the way we felt in our marriages, which reflects the way we feel about ourselves and the kind of respect that we do deserve and should have in our lives.

And so the longer we ignored it, we just, you know, just, it was just another day.

11:51

And then the day came more like, you know what, it’s time for a change.

So acknowledge it, don’t feel bad about it, but acknowledge it.

That’s the first step in my mind that any of these things can happen is to say it out loud and it in a way that works.

12:09

And then you can then you can move forward.

So let’s get to the third one, which I think.

Is I pause you really quickly so that you want to have the the stop doing less again, which we all have stop doing behaviors and create the start doing less.

So whether it’s like limiting your social media to 1/2 an hour, whether it’s going to bed at 10:30 or 10:00 Monday through Friday, stand up later on the weekends, whether it’s, you know, eating better a couple days a week, whether it’s like I always say, do a friendship audit, do an audit on the people that you want to be around.

12:42

And then, you know, we are the combination of the five people we spend the most time with.

So choose them wisely and choose your thoughts wisely.

So if there’s people you want to hang around less, say no.

So you have to, in addition to creating your stop doing lists, even if it’s two to three things, what are two to three things that you want to start doing?

13:00

Because those start doing lists funnels into the things that you’ve decided to do.

And the only way to commit to deciding this is if you start doing the things to get you closer to what you do want.

Right now that that makes total sense.

So we’re going to just pause here for a quick minute because I want to know if you have started dating yet.

13:19

Have you explored the world of dating, divorce, separated?

Whatever it is, Ex Experts has Ex Experts has partnered up with Behind the Swipe and Advanced Adulting to bring you our top tips on dating after divorce.

All you need to do is register at Dating After divorce dot US to gain free, unlimited access to the first series of videos chock full of actionable steps to take and things to avoid.

13:46

Some of our favorites in the group include Don’t Feed the Strays, Enjoy the Attention, and Challenge your deal Breakers.

If you want to see and hear more, all you have to do is visit Dating after Divorce dot US.

You can also find the link in the show notes.

14:02

OK, let’s get back to this.

Jenny, we.

OK, Oh, go ahead as.

I say before.

So now the 3rd, that’s the next one, yes.

Your third house. 3rd.

Hack is, is putting yourself first, I’ll say if you, if each of us were to think about how many times we’re giving to somebody else, whether it’s your kids, you know, your kids, your spouse, your neighbors, your boss.

14:30

We are so quick to say yes and do things for other people that at times we just sort of ignore what we have to do.

And so one of the things I want to interrogate or help clients learn is that it doesn’t take a whole lot of time to put yourself 1st and ask yourself what you need to do each morning and have your non negotiables.

14:47

So this is where I mentioned the non negotiables or what are each of yours non negotiables to set you up for a killer day.

I know for me my morning routine, it exists with like I need 10 minutes of meditation, whether it’s I’m listening to a guided one, drinking my coffee, sitting in my back porch.

15:06

I know if I don’t do that, I feel a little wonky.

I know also getting movement is really important and you know, the list might go on.

So it’s important that each of you ask yourself what those non negotiables are.

It doesn’t have to be a gigantic routine of like yoga poses and movement and meditation and tea and green tea.

15:22

It could be, but again, don’t overthink it.

What are those things that you can do by saying yes to yourself?

So then when things go, you end up in a traffic jam or somebody quits and your ex doesn’t do this.

You can handle it.

You can handle a lot better.

I I definitely felt for a while soon after my separation that I was being selfish.

15:45

And we have spoken to so many people who separate and you know, if I have extra money, I have to spend it on my kids.

I cannot go away by myself because what kind of mother am I going to be or parent am I going to be?

And so this is really flipping the perspective on that, right?

16:04

This is a gift to self, which we’ve been using that hashtag a lot.

My, I know my gift to self is sticking with my trainer who I’ve been with for like 16 years already.

He costs a shit ton of money for me over the years considering I have less income, but I will scrap together the money because that is my mind, body and soul.

16:26

It’s only once a week and beyond that my non negotiable is to move every day.

I love to hike or I’ll bike or I’ll walk or there.

There needs to be something in my day that clears my brain and then I’m actually just a much nicer person.

16:44

So I just I, you know, I have to say that.

Jessica, what’s your non negotiable?

For yourself.

I mean, I feel like I’ve been a little bit in a funk over the last several months because I’ve just had like a lot of stuff going on with my personal life and medical and stuff.

But generally it was for quite a while the whole idea of like having to exercise and move every day.

17:02

I had to freeze my gym membership for a really long time, but I’m back.

I actually literally this morning scheduled, I bought like a package of training sessions because I kind of want to get back into it.

And I also for a while, one of my non negotiable was a bath every night.

I mean, I’m telling you, Jenny, like there were times where I would get 11:30 at night or midnight and I would get in the bath.

17:23

And so for medical stuff, I had to stop taking baths for a while.

So like I I’m just at a point where I’m kind of getting back into what I want my days and my routines to look like so that I can start feeling better.

17:41

I know I have work to do, but I’m for sure going to be following all of these.

So the bath is so great.

I am.

I was so anti bath up until about 3 months ago and now I’m like even if it’s for 5 minutes everybody knows don’t talk to me and I will come out after.

17:58

I love it.

I, I actually, I took a bath at 11:00 AM the other day because I was so stressed out and, and I didn’t have time to go anywhere.

So I’m like, I’m just putting on a Peloton meditation and I’m sitting in the bath and I’m going to run it for 15 minutes.

And then I was up and I was good to go.

18:14

So a bath is not just for a night.

I feel like it’s underrated.

People.

People who?

Totally baths.

Like are like, yes, whatever, they’re totally into it.

And then other people who are like not into it.

I honestly, I think it’s because they haven’t done it.

They don’t do it.

18:29

They don’t have a good bathtub.

You also I mean the truth of the matter is you need a good bathtub if you have just like the standard generic, you know that we kind of all grew up with in a kids bathroom where it’s like a tub and a shower and it’s like low and you.

18:45

Can’t but you Jessica, you can make it great even if that is the only tub you have, because now you have candles and aromatherapy and I feel like.

I can cover myself completely with the water and I’m half hanging out because the tub is too shallow for me.

19:02

I’d rather take a hot shower but anyway I do feel like.

We’re going to get into bats later, yes.

OK.

OK, so #4 yeah.

Next episode is Bats.

Right.

Yeah, don’t listen to other people and don’t take anything personally.

19:17

So much easier said than done, but a good life.

Hack right, because I say to people like how’s your life going right now and who why are you listening to all these people like right.

So again, it’s it’s the it’s the art of asking yourself what you want and committing to it and not asking for votes and not asking for people to either agree with you and only tell the people who actually support you what you want to do or if you need support with or support on what you’re doing.

19:51

But all too often we are afraid.

Think back to the five to 10 year old who does whatever they want.

They don’t ask their friends.

They’re like you don’t want to go play trucks or you don’t want to go jump in the pool with me.

They just do it again.

True leaders are people who actually make changes in their life.

20:09

Decide to do it, commit to do it and they do it and they even if the person when I went to grad school, I didn’t, I wasn’t great in school.

I had a couple learning disabilities that were undiagnosed and school was not my favorite place to be for making friends at school was awesome.

So I took five years and did sports and fitness and then when I was 27, I decided to go to grad school.

20:28

My family and friends were like, excuse me, you barely made it through college.

You hated the ACT, you hated the you know, and I was like, thank you, I’m going to do it and I didn’t it was great.

Again, had I listened to all those people, I would have never become a therapist and sort of followed my dream of motivating people.

20:47

Same thing with, you know, leaving a relationship that wasn’t great.

Are you really going to not see your kids 50% of the time?

Yes, you know what I mean?

So we all have things that we’ve done and I say go back into your Rolodex.

What have you done that was really brave that you’re proud of yourself for and keep doing them.

21:03

Like life is really short and it don’t wait for something bad to happen to then make that change or take the plunge and quit listening to all the other people, even our spouses sometimes like, like really?

And you have to explain to them what you’re doing.

Don’t explain, Just follow your gut and don’t listen to that.

21:22

You know, don’t listen to so many people and also don’t take it personally.

People like, you know what I’m saying?

Like people put their fears.

If I said I’m going to grad school, well, they would say, Are you sure you want to do that?

You really going to give up your nights and your weekends to follow your dream?

21:37

Yes, I am.

They say that because they don’t want to do that.

I do opposed to the person who’s like, that’s amazing, go for it.

Right, and that’s obviously the kind of support that you need.

And but I agree with that.

I feel like it it does as we get older in life become more challenging sometimes to kind of differentiate who to tell things to or who to get opinions from.

21:58

Because the truth is not everybody wants to see you succeed.

Not everybody’s a good in a good place in their life.

And a lot of people have a lot of negativity as things get, you know, as get older.

And so it’s like you got to be able to cut that negativity out of your life for sure.

But I also like.

22:15

But I don’t always think, I don’t always think it’s coming from a negative place either.

Sometimes it is and sometimes people just are doing the best they can, but they’re just giving bad advice.

Like they really don’t know what they’re talking about, you know?

Like I could have the best intention and, and want to help both of you.

22:33

And I’m giving you my opinion.

My opinion could be completely out of whack, but I have good intentions, right?

So just take the information in and sit with it before you act on anything, right?

Yeah, and also, you can tell your loved ones and friends after you decide to do something, after you’ve signed up for grad school, like me, after you’ve decided to leave a marriage, after you’ve decided to change careers, you know, I’m after you’ve decided to change your neighborhood.

23:03

Oh, you’re going to leave this street.

Yeah.

You know, tell them after the fact where they can’t influence.

You that’s.

Right, I actually, my story of telling my parents is actually had a lot to do with the universe.

So it worked out really well.

But on the day that I got my phone call, and by the way, if you guys are not aware of my story and Jessica’s story of how he got divorced at the exact same time, go to xexperts.com and check out our interview with Kat and Nat.

23:32

It’s pretty hilarious and ridiculous at the same time.

But my parents were in Egypt.

And as soon as I got that phone call, I didn’t have to tell anybody anything.

I literally just had to mobilize.

I had to find someone for this kid, someone for that kid.

23:50

Get this one there.

Call my brother.

How am I going to handle this?

It was like it was literally an action plan.

And I didn’t have to tell my parents at all.

And I mean, I told them, but I told them when I was ready.

24:06

Yeah, I told them when I was ready.

And also with them being there would have added a lot of noise.

And it was the first time in a long time that I was making my own decisions and choices and wasn’t asking or entertaining anybody else’s.

24:23

So that’s my story of listen to others.

And it proved to really work for me.

And it doesn’t mean I didn’t want their support after because I certainly did.

But I needed to make the choices that felt best for me.

So let’s get into the next one.

24:39

Well, it’s the.

Last one, which is a real which yeah, but it’s all it’s the last life hack.

I just want to, I just want to point out and, and something that chapter is so good at and has talked about so many times and something that I feel like.

I’ve I own my gut, people.

Yeah, follow your.

Gut.

24:55

Go ahead, Jenny.

Yeah, I mean.

So follow your gut.

My dad taught me this month at a very young age, you’d always say, you know, what does your gut say?

And I maybe I didn’t know what that meant, you know, but now that I’m going to double, I’m like, yes, yes, yes, great lesson to learn.

I would say that if we all have this, we all have this gift in US and we whether it’s the feeling or sense that you get when you walk into a room and you meet somebody, whether it’s the the feeling that you get when you make a decision about something that’s important and you feel at peace, or whether it’s that like nagging little thing that something doesn’t feel right.

25:30

I teach my girls really early on, you’ve got to listen.

If something doesn’t feel right, explore what that means.

And I also want to say when you follow your gut, you are setting yourself apart from being influenced by somebody else.

That’s like, you should take that job or you should stay in that marriage, right?

25:48

You shouldn’t do this right.

Right.

Don’t date that guy.

Do date that guy.

Oh my God, the dating advice that your friends give that are happily married.

I mean like never sorry.

I love my married friends even.

The dating.

Advice.

That you’re divorced friends and single friends give you Everyone has an opinion on whether you should or shouldn’t and what’s could be like.

26:05

It’s like, just go with How do you feel when you’re alone with that person?

Like, you know, stay in your own lane, people.

I love my friends, but you know, and I’m happily I’m engaged and all that it all worked out.

But to fall, fall your gut into not rush into so much, you know, when in doubt, go without if your gut, if you’re in doubt, if your gut is doubtful, like don’t make a decision yet.

26:27

Like just be quiet enough to listen to your gut.

In 2022, I had not listened to my gut for a long time and I had the courage to finally leave a marriage and finalize a divorce and I lost my ex-husband and my mom all within three months and also was diagnosed with breast cancer in a matter of three months.

26:47

It was a really crazy difficult like and were there whispers of the universe telling me to do something that I ignored?

Probably.

And then I got this like tsunami of change that we’re like, Oh my gosh.

And I will say, just understanding when you go through all those things, how you have to rely on your gut and that you just need to like be at peace and be slow and be quiet enough to listen to what’s going on, to move forward was really important.

27:15

So I say to people all the time, don’t feel sorry for me, but take it from somebody who had to go through these three really challenging, sad, terrible things that had opportunities.

Don’t wait for those things to listen to yourself.

Make a decision to go for it and wake up and do it and stop doing the things that no longer serve you and start doing the things that do serve you.

27:40

I couldn’t agree more.

And I love like just your idea, the theory, you know, you wake up one day and you’re kind of like, is this it?

I mean, if you don’t take the action to do what you want or think is best in your life, and you really are just going to be left later kind of wondering what could have been done differently.

28:01

And for all of us, having been divorced and Jenny, for the tragedies that you’ve been through, like life is too fucking short.

You just have to really go for it.

And otherwise, you know, you’ve met people.

28:17

Like, have you ever met somebody?

Our friend, we all are friends with Susan Guthrie.

Our friend does the story where she’s like, I met a friend who got divorced 20 years ago, but I saw her at a cocktail party or him at a cocktail party and he’s still telling me about their ex.

And you meet people who are like, I’m still stuck in this job.

28:34

And like, you will wake up and do Groundhog Day.

Rinse, repeat without saying rinse, reap blah the time unless you make a change.

And I think it’s also you have kids, you know, I think one of the things that I hope I can impart on them is that you can change things when things don’t feel good and you can be brave and trying new things regardless of what it is.

28:53

It doesn’t have to be like I want to be a Prime Minister of something.

Maybe I am, I’m probably no, I’m not going to be.

But like they, I like a simple life.

I like to do things that are not like crazy, but like they’re big and they’re good for me.

So like, when you’re listening out there, don’t feel like you have to go do these monumental changes, but just make, do the things that make your life better.

29:15

You feel more joy.

People, we don’t plan enough fun in our, you know, like plan more fun.

Right, go play.

Go play.

Exactly.

And take accountability.

For that Tutu.

That’s right.

Well, that’s a whole other conversation.

I was going to bring that up, but we’ll talk about that another time.

29:31

No, super great advice and tips.

And you know, for everyone listening, I mean, these are the five things that you can do starting now in order to move forward in a way that’s going to be more positive for you, for your family, for your life, for the next steps, the next chapter.

29:54

So Jenny, thank you so much for sharing all of that with us.

And for everyone listening, if you want to follow Jenny and find out more about her personal professional coaching services, see the show notes.

And if you laughed and learned during this episode of the Divorce Etc… podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d spend one minute giving us a five star review and leaving a quick comment.

30:12

We are on a mission to educate, empower and support anyone touched by divorce.

Your divorce doesn’t define you.

It does empower you.

We’ve lived it, so we get it.

So please share this episode with anyone you know who can benefit from listening and have a great day.