When you’re going through a divorce, it can be difficult to pick your battles.

You may think, oh, I’m going to fight to get this amount of money, or I have a prenup, so I’m going to be perfectly fine.

But you have to be careful about the myths of divorce because it’s really never as cut and dry as you think or want it to be.

0:24

That’s exactly what we’re talking about in today’s episode of the Divorce, ETC podcast, The Myths of Divorce.

We’re the exEXPERTS, Jessica and TH.

We help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life.

Let’s get started.

0:40

So I am flying solo today.

Jessica is unfortunately not feeling well, so she’s not joining us for tonight’s reporting.

But our guest is Kara Chrobak, correct?

Yes.

You know, right And.

0:56

She is a partner of Buchalter Family Law Group in Denver, Co, one of my favorite places ever.

And we are busting some myths around divorce.

We are clearing the clutter.

We’re getting the facts to you.

So you’re going to want to hear this for yourself or friends.

1:14

So welcome to the show, Cara.

Thank you, happy to be here.

So let’s get into it.

I mean, people have a lot of beliefs.

Your friend told you this, your parents told you that.

You saw it on Tiktok.

1:29

You know, someone posted it in a reel on Instagram.

We don’t really even know what to believe anymore.

So I’m really glad that you’re here now to set the record straight.

So let’s go through the list of myths around divorce.

1:45

Let’s start with your first one.

Absolutely.

So in my practice, I do a lot of high net worth and ultra high net worth divorces and a myth I am commonly hearing is that I have a prenup and therefore this is ironclad and it should be handled very quickly and easily.

2:06

Prenups are great.

And prenups, I would say, are not ironclad.

They’re more like gold.

They’re a little bit more malleable, still valuable, but there is always a degree to which a prenup could be set aside.

There are instances, at least in Colorado, where disclosures are not adequate.

2:25

The financial information needed before parties do a prenuptial agreement is missing information or is insufficient in some way, and that could subject a prenup system vulnerability.

The same is true if if a party is found to be under duress in Colorado.

2:42

Wait, I didn’t hear what you just said.

The other one is if a party’s in distress, duress.

Is the other consideration, Yeah.

And there in Colorado, there are also other kind of avenues.

The parties could still be litigating even if they have a prenup that is valid.

2:58

For example, we have you could still end up litigating the alimony or maintenance at issue because Colorado law provides that alimony is still going to be subject to review for fairness at the time of the divorce regardless of what a prenup says.

3:16

So.

Why get a prenup?

Why get a prenup if it’s not going to hold up?

Isn’t that the whole point of it?

There’s they are definitely, I mean there’s still structure to them and more often than not they are enforceable.

And so that’s why people get them is because it provides some markings and how a divorce should be handled in the event parties go down that road.

3:39

They’re also helpful for estate planning reasons, you know, because marriages end, all marriages end at one point or another, whether it’s by death or divorce.

And so it’s they’re helpful to have for parties.

I also just think they’re helpful at the beginning of a marriage to really set out, you know, how are we going to handle things during our marriage?

3:56

How are we going to handle our financial situation?

How are we going to handle our homes and our bank accounts?

And are we going to join finances?

So I’m a big proponent of prenups.

I just think it’s very important that people recognize just because you have one does not mean this is necessarily going to be an easy process.

4:13

So let’s just.

Expand on that for a minute before we get into our next myth.

If you’re doing a prenup.

So I’m now, I think we are basically speaking to people who are possibly going to get married for the second or or more time.

If you’re doing that, how do you make sure that your prenup is solid?

4:35

Like what do you have to prepare other than this particular legal document?

So definitely in Colorado you need to make sure you have a good attorney representing you.

I think that’s step number one is to make sure you’re represented.

I think that having LegalZoom or other types of online preduptial agreements prepared for you subjects you a little bit to full vulnerability.

4:58

The second step is to over disclose financial assets to make sure you’re not hiding anything or omitting anything when you’re exchanging your financial information before getting into a prenuptial agreement.

And then the third thing I would recommend is just really making sure that everybody’s on the same page.

5:13

And then it feels fair because I think that the more fair a prenup feels to both parties, even at the end of their marriage, the less likely either party is to contest it.

When you see contests or when prenups really feel unfair and one party’s walking away thinking I really got the raw end of this and this does not feel fair to me.

5:30

So how does celebrities and like the Uber rich get a divorce?

Don’t they have prenups?

They certainly, I mean, a lot of them do.

I think as I said, even if they have prenups, there’s still going to be things to fight over, whether it be division of their property, they maybe are creating some marital property that even the prenup would provide for.

5:51

And so they would still likely fight over that marital property as well.

But not necessarily everybody has a prenup even.

I mean, I know that reading the gossip magazines, it sounds like Jlo and Ben don’t have a prenup.

And if they don’t, then who?

Who possibly would you?

Know it’s crazy, right?

6:08

Crazy, crazy.

So I mean.

I can’t.

I don’t think you can assume that.

So you can’t assume it’s it’s all easy breezy just because you have a prenup is what you’re saying?

I think so.

I think that you just need to be prepared that that could end up being not as simple as you think it might be.

6:25

You’re not.

It’s not nearly as ironclad as as people in the public, probably.

Assume.

OK, next myth.

Let’s talk about probably the number one question you get when someone walks in your office for the first time or during the duration of your relationship with them is Kara, how long is this divorce going to take?

6:52

I get that question all of the time, and the answer is a very lawyerly answer.

It depends.

There’s not any way I can possibly anticipate how long a given divorce will take because so much of it depends on the facts of the given case.

So in Colorado you cannot be divorced sooner than 91 days after filing your petition.

7:13

So a bare minimum, if you agree on everything on the first day that you file, you still have to wait that mandatory waiting period before you can finalize your divorce.

So that’s your best case scenario.

Yeah.

And then, but you know, assuming you’re you don’t agree to everything on day one, you’re going to end up likely taking at least six months to a year to end up getting values and mediating and taking all the steps necessary to reach a resolution.

7:40

That all being said, I have certainly had cases that have lasted more than three years.

And so, you know, it’s all dependent on the situation and the circumstances and how long people have it in them to fight.

Yeah.

And at a certain point of time, you might be things that you thought were so important on day one are just really not that important.

8:01

And also, I know from experience that you know, the time that you’re separated before your divorce is final.

It’s kind of like where you put everything to practice and you see what you like.

So you may have agreed to all this and then you’re like, you know what, I can’t do Wednesday nights or you know what, I’m not making my budget with this.

8:20

This isn’t enough money.

However, it is.

So it’s kind of a good practice time anyway to make sure that things are good.

So don’t rush your divorce because these are literally lifelong decisions that would be very costly to bring back up again at at a later point or post judgement, right?

8:41

Absolutely.

I think taking time to really make sure that it’s going to work for you and your family is far more important than getting through the process because it’s uncomfortable.

And so a lot of the times when I have a client who’s anxious to be done, I always remind them that I, this is an uncomfortable time in your life.

You know, you need to take it a day at a time.

8:58

We’re doing the best we can, but we need to make sure we have all of the TS crossed and all the I’s dotted so that we make sure we do this properly one time for you.

So I have another one that we didn’t actually prepare here, but it just came to mind.

And if I don’t say it now, I’m never going to remember it.

9:15

What about the myth that your lawyer is the only person you actually need on your divorce case?

Your lawyer can handle everything.

You’re I’m paying you so much money.

You should be able to take care of my brain, my divorce, my money, my everything.

9:31

So let’s clear that up because I feel like people think that you guys, as great as you are, can handle it all right?

And that’s not really true.

No, I, I would love to be able to do that.

9:47

I think that would be quite a service to provide to people.

But I am not.

I’m an expert at doing what I do, which is helping people get divorced, but I’m not an expert at the mental health components of a divorce case.

I mean, obviously I always recommend people have a therapist that they’re working with because it’s a, it’s a really hard time for people emotionally to be dealing with the transition of a divorce.

10:10

And working with the therapist can be very helpful from a, from a obviously a therapeutic perspective, but can also sometimes have a strategic advantage in a divorce case to show that you’re taking care of your mental health, at least in Colorado.

I also often recommend family therapist working with the parents if they’re at least remotely on the same page to come up with arrangements for the kids to really limit the conflict for the children.

10:35

A lot of the time I will recommend parties, clients, get involved with financial planners or our wealth managers to help them determine kind of what their cash flow will look like after divorce.

Help them set a budget, help them work through kind of all of the aspects of the financial settlement if and when that is completed.

10:58

Let’s see, what else do I recommend people work with?

We often times work with estate planning attorneys to make sure that they have the estate documents that they need set up properly once the divorce is done.

I What else do you have?

TH do you?

Connect them with the experts in the other fields and you can say you may want to bring this type of expert on board or that type of expert on board.

11:21

But my understanding is that you handle the legal part of the divorce and that’s it.

And I don’t need to come into your office and spill my whole weekend drama to you, right?

Because then I’m spending however much money an hour.

11:38

I know I was like $500.00 an hour for my lawyer back in the day and I literally spewed everything.

I’m like, but you need to know all of this.

But do you really need to know all of it, Cara?

I mean, that’s an it depends answer as well, unfortunately, because it depends on what’s at issue.

11:56

You know, if, if you’re, if you’re fighting over custody and your weekend involved a lot of traumatic events for your kids or there was something really strange that happened after school pickup and, and you need to give the rundown on that.

There’s a possibility that there’s some relevance, but on a high level, if you’re not fighting over the kids, then I don’t need to know about like where you went to the bar on Friday night.

12:16

You know, there’s not really any need for.

That with his girlfriend or people are shit talking you and yeah.

Right, yes, I don’t need to hear any of that, but I mean it, I think if you could always ask your attorney, hey, you know, is this helpful for you to know?

12:34

And we’ll be honest, I don’t, I don’t want to spend money needlessly either.

So I would certainly say this is not a good use of your time.

And this is something to unpack with your therapist.

Totally.

OK I know you guys have questions and so ex experts is here to answer all of them and we have more myths coming up right after this quick break.

12:54

But I want you to get a pencil, pen, or start writing notes on your phone with your questions related to this interview as well as other divorce ETC podcast topics.

You can ask us anything and we will get you the answers.

13:10

If you don’t know where to start and you’re feeling kind of lost, join the club.

You are not alone.

We work with you.

We clear the clutter in your brain and help you focus on what’s most important right now while planning for what’s next in divorce and in the rest of your life.

13:25

This is only a hot minute in your life, even though it feels like forever.

You don’t know what you don’t know, but we do.

We’re waiting to hear from you.

All you have to do is e-mail hello@exexperts.com.

All right, Cara, let’s get into another one.

13:44

I’ve been married 30 years.

Don’t I get alimony for the rest of his life?

Is that a myth?

I think it’s a myth.

It depends, you know, at least in Colorado, it really depends on the, the facts and circumstances of a given case.

14:04

So judges in Colorado are going to be looking to things like, as you said, the length of the marriage, but they’re also looking to things like your ability to be employed, the earning potential that you have, your age, whether you’re able to get back into the workforce, your spouse’s age, whether your spouse is retired or intending to retire.

14:23

Also, what is it that you’re receiving in your divorce settlement or as part of your property division?

Are those assets sufficient for you to support yourself?

There are many different factual aspects of a case that a judge will be looking at to determine whether or not you are in fact going to get maintenance, how much maintenance you get, and for how long.

14:44

And hey, I know for me when I was first separated, I was thinking like the rest of his life.

But in general, broad strokes, it’s really until retirement age that alimony is paid.

Is that correct?

14:59

In broad strokes?

It could differ in some states, but it’s not for the rest of your life.

There’s no no permanent anything.

It’s until when Explain that.

Sure.

So it can be permanent alimony.

That is called permanent alimony.

15:15

But more often than not, when you have a court that has awarded that, the party who’s retiring will likely file a motion to modify alimony or maintenance in Colorado at the time that the person retires.

And at that point in time, the court will consider whether or not maintenance should be modified or reduced to some degree so that that party is not obligated to keep working forever, indefinitely, simply because they had been married a while ago.

15:41

Right.

So listen, we’re managing your expectations here, everybody.

If you’re thinking about it or in the process of it, think about retirement age and then work backwards like that’s the last paycheck, ladies and gentlemen.

So work backwards and start planning your own retirement and do your own savings and bring in your own income.

16:04

Because I will tell you that when I was collecting support, I was pretty comfy and I, I don’t know, I had an inkling that I should probably check my agreement.

For whatever reason.

I told myself that I was getting support until my youngest son finished college.

16:23

And I went back and looked and I’m like holy shit, my support ends in like 2 months and I’m already working and everything.

So there was, there was nothing else for me to do.

But just really it’s going to end at some point.

16:40

Your your extra money coming in.

It’s only isn’t alimony or support or maintenance or whatever quote you call it now just to really help the other person kind of get back on their feet.

It’s not like just to keep you in the lifestyle to which you’ve become accustomed.

16:58

On by and large, I would agree with that absolutely.

I think it’s a, it’s a matter of setting expectations and I think that’s a very appropriate expectation to have in your mind.

I mean, again, asterisk caveat, there are instances where one might get support for the rest of their lives, but I would say it’s few and far between and for the most most of the population, it’s a good idea to be thinking for.

17:17

What about that?

OK, go ahead.

What are you up next?

OK, so the next myth is that divorce settlements are always equal or 5050, at least in Colorado.

In some states it differs, but at least in Colorado, we are an equitable division state.

17:37

So what that means is that divorce settlements can be something other than 5050 depending on what a judge thinks is fair and equitable in the circumstances.

So it’s not and.

Is that related to money, kids and assets?

17:55

So the equitable division component of it is related to assets.

Kids is a standard best interest of the child.

And so in Colorado that can result in something other than 5050 depending again on what is in the best interest of the child.

But the idea that you’re going to end up with a equal division of your marital state is not always a certainty, especially again, courts will look at the length of the marriage.

18:23

They will look at what each party has brought to the marriage, whether it be, you know, I, it was my down payment for this house or I brought, you know, several million into the marital estate and then you got the benefit of it and now we spent it all.

If you have facts like that, if there’s a possibility that you might end up with an unequal division whereby you get 10% and he gets 90% or vice versa of the estate to really make make sure that the parties walking away have a fairer situation.

18:54

OK, OK.

What’s next?

What about divorce as it comes to a family business?

Yeah.

So family businesses are always difficult in divorces because they necessarily if parties who are getting divorced or one party who’s getting divorced is involved in a family business, you’re necessarily going to be opening up the whole business to your divorce situation.

19:19

And so that can be really tricky and can create major familial issues with siblings or parents if all of a sudden you’re soon to be ex-wife is trying to get all of these financial documents from the family’s business.

So that being said, it doesn’t mean that it always will turn into a mess for your family’s business and there are ways to prevent that from happening.

19:41

So having a divorce will not necessarily ruin your family business per SE.

I think that having certain provisions in your operating agreement, there are certain ways you can protect yourself around a divorce, really interfering or interacting with your family’s business.

20:00

You can also if you’re a minority interest holder, that also could have an impact on how relevant the financial information of the business is in a divorce case.

So they won’t.

It won’t always ruin a family business.

It can, but it will not always.

OK, good.

20:16

Well, that’s good because we have a lot of small business owners here and these people have worked so hard to build a business, or they inherited a business and you want to be able to keep it going even though your personal relationship isn’t working out.

I want to share another myth of my own, which is that divorce will ruin your kids.

20:38

I had an extremely contentious divorce.

I had, they had an absentee father.

Then I had a very contentious divorce that lasted over four years.

And there was a lot of shit talking back and forth.

And I will tell you that 15, well, it’s 12 years since my divorce was finalized.

20:59

But that separation period is actually worse than the period after your divorce when everything’s kind of in limbo.

And my kids are great.

My kids are great and I definitely stayed in my marriage because I was afraid that I was going to be a bad mom and that I would ruin my kids.

21:19

But I am here to tell you that as long as you are the best version of yourself and you don’t worry.

I mean, obviously if there’s any safety concerns, that’s different, but in the normal course of life, just because you don’t like your ex doesn’t mean that they’re not a good parent.

21:39

And I, I grappled with that.

I’m telling you right now, I was like, of course, my son came home with a huge bandage on his knee because his dad doesn’t know how to take care of him.

I mean, that is truly how I felt at the time.

But now I know that that was just me being majorly emotional and not realistic.

21:59

I mean, shit happens everywhere.

So divorce won’t ruin your kids as long as you take care of yourself and you are a great moral model for your kids and you keep communication open with your kids and you don’t judge and you don’t shit talk your ex in front of your kids.

22:18

So true.

You will not ruin them because you’re not ruining their relationship with their with your ex by saying bad things.

You’re ruining your relationship with your kids.

Nobody wants somebody to say bad things about their parents and if it’s coming out of your mouth and that’s pretty ugly.

22:36

So Paul ex experts, you can vent with us and we will help you along the way, but you will not ruin your kids because you’re getting a divorce.

OK I’ll call your lawyer.

You can.

You can always vent your lawyer too.

That’s a good vent thing to avoid shit talking about your ex and declare your lawyer and shit talk to your lawyer cause well we don’t want to charge needlessly.

22:57

That is a good use of time to avoid involving your children in your divorce case.

You know what even better write in a journal, scream into your phone and record it and then erase it.

Write stuff down there.

There are ways to make it work, whereas toy can make it work.

23:13

OK, so our last is.

Yes.

So only tangible assets are divided in a divorce.

So what this means is only the the the businesses that are on a tax return are going to be subject to division, only the house, only the bank account.

23:35

That’s not always necessary, but necessarily the case, at least in Colorado, because we also recognize values and intangible assets such as goodwill, such as intellectual property.

And so it’s very important that people understand that just because it’s not listed on a balance sheet does not mean that it doesn’t, it’s not going in the pot for equitable division.

24:02

Explain more because I’m I want to be like painfully clear on this.

Yes.

So there, at least in Colorado, we recognize a value to goodwill or to essentially what a party, you know, being in the universe is worth essentially.

24:20

So when you think about a celebrity basketball player and they have their name, OK, or they have, or like a real estate agent who has, there’s not a whole lot of value to their real estate practice because there’s not like, you know, tractors or printers or an office building.

24:41

So it’s just that, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not a value to their name and to what they’re known as in the community, which we consider the goodwill value.

And that can.

Be significant yeah, I mean that can have huge value if it’s a really successful real estate agent or a really successful business person or celebrity, they, their name can really have a significant value beyond what’s listed on the balance sheet of their business.

25:06

So the chairs and the desks and the bank accounts from their business.

They also will have this intangible goodwill value that will be a part of the business being valued.

So if you’re in a situation where your spouse is saying to you, hey, yeah, I know my business, here’s the balance sheet, my business is only $100,000.

25:25

Don’t just take that as face value, at least if you’re getting divorced in Colorado, because there could be significant additional value to that business simply because of the goodwill.

So how do you find out what those values are like?

Who decides what that value is?

Is that your lawyer or you have to hire someone special?

Typically we have an expert involved to at least do the calculations to determine what that value is.

25:48

That’s interesting, I never heard about that and that was very interesting.

If you guys have any other questions or you have any other concerns or things that you’re worried about, don’t forget to e-mail us.

And if you want to follow Kara and find out more about her, just see the show notes.

26:04

If you laughed and learned during this episode of the Divorce, ETC podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d spend one minute giving us five stars and leaving a quick comment.

We’re on a mission to educate, empower and support anyone touched by divorce.

Your divorce doesn’t define you.

26:20

It empowers you.

We’ve lived it, so we get it.

Please share this episode with anyone you know who can benefit from listening.

Thanks, Kara for being here and have a great day.

You’re.

Welcome.

Thank you.