FULL TRANSCRIPT – CAT & NAT ON DIVORCE ETC… PODCAST WITH exEXPERTS

0:00

Two best friends that started a podcast to share their mom moments and everything they’re going through.

Sound familiar?

You know we love girl gang support and being honest, open and raw about all the things raising kids, adulting work, and basically just getting through it all.

And that’s exactly what we’re talking about on today’s episode of the Divorce Etcetera Podcast.

0:19

We have two great guests that we’ve been admiring and relating to from afar and we were happy to join them on their podcast recently.

We know you’re going to love them as much as we do.

We’re the exEXPERTS, Jessica and TH.

We help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life.

0:35

Let’s bring in today’s guests.

I am such a super fan.

I am so excited.

Just so you guys all know, I think we we have rescheduled this about five times so.

Life.

Gets in the way, but.

We we know it.

0:50

Happen.

So we have Cat and Nat here.

From Cat and Nat.

Unfiltered hashtag mom truths, all of the things that you want to know about two besties, Being moms, being best friends, still having sex after kids, not having sex after kids.

1:08

Whatever.

They’re literally are unfiltered.

So welcome to our show, ladies.

Thank you so much for having us.

Thank you for having us.

We’re so happy.

For being here.

So first question, whose idea was this anyway?

1:23

Cat and Nat?

Unfiltered going live?

Being on camera all the time.

Like. 24/7 Whose great idea was this?

There was no camera when we started.

It was.

It was blog days and Pinterest days and when we say there was no influencing job, this was not a thing.

1:43

You did not work from home.

You did not share stories other than what sort of craft you were making or a rainbow cake you were were doing.

It was at the time of they were form what were what.

Were they?

Do they were like?

They were crafting mom.

1:58

They literally did crafting moms.

I can’t remember, but that was really the big mom thing only.

And a lot of people tried to put us in that box.

They really thought that, you know, we just kind of were we would just do events because we want women to talk.

2:14

And it was really hard to get women together and and talk with children running around.

And I think that we were two stay at home moms and we were really the only two stay at home moms at the time.

And everyone else was working.

And it was at a time when you go for dinner and you couldn’t talk about your kids.

Like it was kind of like unpolitically taboo.

2:33

It was like taboo.

It was like, you don’t talk about your kids.

You talk about you be interesting, but everything else.

But they don’t exist.

Remember when you had to go to work like you didn’t have kids and then come home like you didn’t?

Work.

And meanwhile, like, the only thing on your mind all the time is your kids, ’cause you think you’re doing everything wrong, and so you’re just questioning everything.

2:49

But you have to try and carry on a conversation about something else ’cause nobody wants to just talk about the kids.

And blogs were never our thing.

So I think that we really, I can confidently say we were one of the first live streamers because we had to go to Germany to get a software to start talking to people.

3:06

And I think a a community kind of came out of just a conversation of mum truths, which was our videos.

We began to put up on YouTube and then would share to Facebook, and then Facebook Live came and then all of a sudden it became what it is today.

3:22

That’s a really short version of it, but I don’t I don’t think it was an idea to ever do this.

No, I no, it wasn’t.

But The thing is, is that.

Yeah.

And we we.

We.

Wanted when we were creating events in person, what everyone was saying to us, I want that in my city.

I want to be there.

Like how can this happen?

3:38

And we’re like, how can we do this?

Let’s video it and live stream.

And that’s really how it started to become like, how can we get this message of like, you know, community and like being open minded and sharing all the stuff.

The only way that we could do it was through video, because we weren’t going to sit down and write about it like everybody else was doing at the time.

3:54

Right.

Well you know, it’s so funny too, ’cause I mean, I I, as I’m sure you know, like one of the most relatable things is the fact that you guys are so brutally honest about what you’re going through.

Like I remember when my kids were little and and whatever, even when I was at work and I would say things like my kids are such assholes.

4:10

Like this is what I’m dealing with today.

Like what a pain in my ass.

And people are like my friends would totally laugh and be like, yeah, we totally get it.

But then there are other people around who are like how can you say that like?

Children are such a.

Blessing.

You should want to be with them all the time.

4:26

And I’m like, that is such fucking bullshit.

And why is that the message that’s out there?

Like shouldn’t the message be how fucking hard it is to balance it all.

And so we are obviously doing something different when it comes to divorce, but also like how much it sucks and how much life can suck.

4:44

But like there can still be good moments.

And I feel like what you guys are doing is bringing that message home, like beating at home, which people need to.

Hear the people need to hear.

And I don’t remember if we told you when you were on our podcast, but during the time when we’re having these events, the majority of the people at the time were married and having like their first babies.

5:05

But we did recognize that there was a group of people that were newly divorced, and although we weren’t divorced, we knew that they wanted to connect.

So we ended up hosting events for, you know, divorced moms so they got together and they could talk about the challenges that they were having that we we weren’t experiencing.

5:23

So we couldn’t, you know, we couldn’t talk about it, but we could bring them together.

And some of those friendships, which started a decade ago, those women are still, like, in support of each other because they just, they didn’t have any.

People weren’t divorced, like they were so new.

There comes to be like an age, like TH and I were the first ones.

5:42

We were like, you know, in our, you know, early to mid 30s and then it’s like 10 years later the rash came and people started getting divorced.

But it but it is true, like it’s the same as when you start having kids, like you need people around to understand what you’re going through because people, other people just legitimately don’t.

6:03

It’s not a judgmental thing.

No, but when you have.

Kids and you’re bitching and moaning about what’s going on with your kids, and you have friends who don’t have kids.

Like they literally cannot relate.

I know.

And you know, I I think we have I I have to clarify that you know people someone once called it a rant and I’m like, you know, I don’t think it’s a rant as opposed to something about like the unrealistic expectations because being a mom’s really easy when XY and Z is all taken care of and when you’re not having to book dentist doctors worry about being a mom is simple without everything that comes along with it.

6:40

And I think that the the joy of motherhood we have so much like we love being moms.

I don’t love everything that comes.

I fucking hate dinner.

I hate.

I hate thinking about where they have to be.

I hate what you know.

You can hate parts of the the job without hating your children, you know.

6:59

And I think there’s a big distinction where people hear, you know, complaints.

They don’t understand that you can complain about the minutiae of the day-to-day and still love.

You know, you’d never want them to be gone or something different.

It’s just that what comes along with it is often a lot more than just being a mom.

7:18

Like, I’ve never actually met someone who’s like, I regret having children and I hate.

Being a we.

No, but no.

But don’t you remember?

What a what a perfect.

Act like I think we do, no.

It’s on.

It’s on.

It’s on a yeah.

It’s on a.

It’s on like A blog being like I I didn’t want this and I did it because everyone told me to, you know, like they have their, yeah.

7:36

Well, that’s that’s unfortunate, but I just feel like it’s so funny.

What a perfect parent we all were before we, any of us, had kids.

I would never let my kid have that much screen time.

I would never let my kid behave like that in a restaurant.

I would never do this.

7:52

And it’s like, yeah, just fucking wait, right?

And and I put some on the airplane.

Oh yeah, that’s that’s the best.

Love those.

And then there’s still parents who pretend that their kids would never do.

I’m like a senior kid.

When you’re not around, they’re the biggest shit out there.

8:07

I know, I know.

Well, it’s the same thing with everything in life, right?

It’s not me.

It’s you.

And you’re the you’re the one with the problem.

OK, so we want to know more about you guys personally now, not just what you always put out there.

8:22

So were you guys friends growing up?

Were you friends because you had kids the same age?

Like, how did you guys meet?

It’s so it’s so funny cuz did you see those stories the other day that I did?

Cuz I we grew up in kind of the same circles for a very long time, and I have like a best friend that I’ve had since before kindergarten, like daycare.

8:46

Ironically, Natalie and I.

Kept.

Our lives are perhaps kept coming into each other’s lives without it being the friendship that it is today.

It was.

It’s so interesting when, like, I look back because I have to find those pictures, ’cause she has them of like us at camp together in the same cabin, but with our respective best friends.

9:07

Yeah, I came with mine and she came with hers.

And then, you know, we’d be at the same like parties, but like as friends in high school who are kind of naughty, not as best friends.

And then, you know, we always just sort of like we’re in each other’s lives.

And I think a lot of people think that, you know, we met in 9th grade, We went to camp together, We went to the same school, but definitely had two different separate friend groups.

9:30

But we’re always in each other’s lives.

And then in we kept in touch for some weird reason because.

I was ever talked.

To anybody else, no.

And I was really good friends with her best her, her best friend I was that’s How I Met her, was through her best friend and.

9:47

Did you keep in touch with her?

No, not as much.

And then and here we are, we had babies ironically together at the same time.

And it’s.

Like the world wanted to keep us together.

I was just.

Going to say that they.

Knew that we’d.

Need each other?

Yeah, and then I’m going to mindfuck you.

10:02

I I love it.

When?

You talk dirty.

Yeah, with my dog in my arms, our I was hanging out with her and I was talking about her and we’d be at the, like, my parents would like know her, ’cause she began to be in my life a lot.

10:19

And I was in her life a lot.

And then my dad was like, is that the same person that has this grandmother?

And I was like, Yep.

And then he’s like, well, did you know your your grandmothers were like best friends and together constantly?

They were like widowed really early.

10:35

Widowed and they left a cocktail and play bridge together or something, whatever.

Those are Ginny.

That’s amazing.

Ginny from Ginny or something.

I don’t know that ’cause that.

Ginny what in Romney?

Yeah, whatever that card game is.

And they never remarried either one of them.

And they were, you know, kind of widowed, very young.

10:52

And it it’s just really interesting that we never knew each other when they were alive.

Our parents knew, but we didn’t know about that.

You’re like, they’re soul sister spirits kind of.

That’s cool one.

Wasn’t very kind, but that’s OK.

It was.

11:07

You know, my grandmother had a lot of friends and anyways, it’s a different.

Story my mom.

My mom was like the one woman that I like of her mother in She was just such a fun lady.

11:22

There wasn’t many, but my my grandmother was one of them.

So there we What if your kids end up hating each other as they get older?

Too late for that, no.

I think, you know I think they see each other as like it’s not, it’s not about there’s no hate.

If anything, they would have their more sibling rivalry than there would be like sibling Inter Blacks, then you know what I’m saying?

11:45

Like they’re all.

They’ve been together so long now and there’s seven of them and they’ve they’ve known each other since they were born because our daughters, our our eldest, are the ones that we really started to connect.

So they haven’t known life without each other.

And it’s like, it’s not, it’s not it’s not their cousins and it’s not their like a couple of them are really our best friends.

12:03

But it’s just this unique thing that they just, they just know is in their lives and will always be in their lives.

Chloe, We were in the down in our studio yesterday recording something and she’s like, I don’t see Natalie anymore.

It was so cute and.

I just it was.

Like, it was like a pack because our big kids take up a lot of time now, right?

So it was like a passing.

12:19

And she’s only eight, so she’s the little one.

She’s like, I don’t see her anymore.

Oh my I.

Love that because I see her more than any of them.

But I like I don’t like it when I don’t see her kids.

No, I’m passing.

I don’t see Natalie.

Anymore.

Oh my gosh, I don’t see you.

I will hang out with her 24/7.

It was really cute.

We have that with our kids, like our kids.

12:36

My I have an older one.

And then I have two.

And then my youngest is the same age as Jessica’s oldest, her first.

The boys are actually five days apart.

And then Jessica has a younger daughter, Zoe, and it’s the same thing.

It’s like family.

It’s like comfort.

12:51

It’s easy.

It’s not There’s nothing, you know, There’s just nothing to worry about.

We’re just all here together and this is what it is.

And.

They all know each other, so wow, There’s no surprises in the way that they walk, talk, behave, react.

13:07

Actually, sometimes my youngest gets jealous of well, she got jealous of the dog and of Natalie, so sometimes she’ll get jealous, but she gets jealous of the dog.

Like if she no one else can have me but her.

She’s a bit a bit of a stalker.

But it were you know, she’s working.

She’s growing up, she.

She’s still working through it.

13:23

She used to fight with the dog, like actually getting fights.

I’m like, no, you cannot.

It’s a it’s no.

We’re.

I remember saying to her like, Oh my gosh.

Bo the baby.

And she was really young.

She was like 2 1/2 she.

Looked at me and she goes, I’m the baby.

Yeah, no, no, she’s definitely got deception issues over me.

13:38

Yeah, on girls or something.

Like when we got.

Divorced.

We were so young and our kids were so young because, like I said, like we were like the first one, so T HS kids were. 8/6 and four, yeah.

And.

My kids were two and four, so we and we were best friends and our husbands were best friends.

13:56

And so we arranged at TH and I in our divorce agreements and in our settlements that like the rotation of when we had the kids on the weekends was always the same.

So we always had every single weekend.

It was like even if we weren’t doing anything, we were not doing anything together.

14:13

Right did.

They keep in touch, did the dads.

Not anymore.

Not anymore they did.

They weren’t real best friends They did for.

A while.

Well, they were both dating bitchy women and they stayed with their bitchy women, and so I think the women drove them apart.

But.

Wow.

Our kids, they were basically together every weekend because whether they were with us or whether they were with them, yeah, that’s what they were doing.

14:33

And we would celebrate all the holidays together.

We would go to teaches house her.

My kids are like, love her parents.

It’s a whole.

It’s a fun one.

To live from each other.

Well, now we live probably close to an hour because she lives further out in New Jersey, But initially I was living Uptown in New York and she was just over the bridge in Jersey, so it’s literally.

14:54

Like, it’s like 22 miles.

But when you take an hour out of Manhattan and she moved all the way downtown, it’s like I live.

All the way downtown.

Got a plan a day?

Yeah.

So what about your husband?

Are they best friends?

Yeah, men are do.

15:10

Men are like, OK, they’re they.

Are plans together without you?

Yes, yes, and it it’s used.

When we’re not here, yeah, there are no.

Because they have all the kids.

Yeah.

And they’re also they’re also men who rely on us to make plans.

15:27

Like in general, even if we were not like.

If you know those guys that go out with their guys like like once a week, twice a week, like we know lots of guys like that, our guys aren’t like that.

They’re they’re working and they’re usually with the family or they’re taking the kids to all their sports.

That’s our happy place.

So they’re not like, oh, they.

15:43

Know they’re going to see each other with you anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wouldn’t.

Yeah, they’re they’re just not organizers in life.

Like it’s they’re not they’re not calling anybody, if that makes sense.

But they have the same thing in common, that they’re married to these crazy girls.

Yeah, but we all have our roles.

16:00

But would they be friends if you guys weren’t married?

Yeah, yeah.

If they’d met, probably they wouldn’t have met.

Mine wouldn’t even live in Canada.

Oh, really?

He’s not from Canada?

No, he’s from Massachusetts.

Oh, interesting.

I mean, they have.

16:15

They have a big role with us, right?

We have seven kids and I was thinking recently, like, teenage hood is a it is, it is a different world, it’s a different phase.

It’s not your life anymore.

And I think a lot of people are like, oh, the baby phase.

16:31

You still get to put them to bed and decide where you want to go.

Like you get to decide if you want to go to your house for the weekend or your house for the weekend.

You have to decide.

It literally stops because their schedules become more important.

And you are the person who makes it, who orchestrates it.

16:47

Because they’re not quite independent up to go on your own, but they’re they’re not did independent enough to not go on their own.

Does this make sense?

So you’re kind of in between so.

We’re on the on those teenagers.

Schedules.

And there’s so many of them.

I thought I I was in the shower.

I’m like, it’s not just another sandwich.

You used to say.

17:03

It’s just another sandwich.

It’s not.

That’s a lie.

That’s.

A my my mom used to say that to make sure we had.

Kids, no, it’s not another sandwich.

I’m letting you all know right now.

One more kid is not just another sandwich.

That is.

Let’s put that one to bed right now.

Fucking lie.

She just wanted to make sure I didn’t have.

17:18

One it’s actually another bag of issues and another bag of like, here you go, another bag of like take it away, I’ll.

I’ll never forget, like there was a mom that I I worked with and she was, you know, you know, that perfect person who’s like a little bit older than you.

She, I got married when I knew her.

She had young kids.

So I watched her like, oh, this is what my life is going to be like.

17:36

And I remember she had two kids.

She’s like always wanted a third.

But I just really think like, I’ve got two, like, perfect kids.

Do I really want to like, rock the boat?

If it it becomes too much for me, my husband, or if, you know, something happens and I was like I of course in my young brain, I never even considered that.

17:53

Like if you don’t have three kids, just have three kids.

Anyway, she ended up divorced too, just with two kids, so she could have had. 4.

There you go.

OK, so how do you guys find time off camera?

Off recording.

Not doing events.

18:09

Not taking kids to just be friends.

That’s like we don’t.

No, no, no.

No, no, but I honestly scheduled a friendship date night zoom.

Like a face.

Time on zoom because we, I don’t know anything that’s going on.

We.

Spend so much time together.

18:26

Like I pull up, I pull up, I pull up.

I her, my kids goes to school right beside her house.

I pull up in the morning.

We stay together whether we’re working or just talking.

Often we get the day gets away and we’re like we did nothing today and we.

Just talked the.

Whole time like Cath, he was like, fuck girl, did you?

You were like.

18:42

She’s.

Like I.

I I saw your Insta stories.

I know you were just sitting there together.

Why didn’t you get your deliverable done?

We’re like, Oh my God, we had to talk about everything.

So we spend almost every day from morning until kids pick up together, and then we talk about seven, call each other about seven times in the evening, and we call each other before we see each other in the morning when she dropped off her kids.

19:01

And I’m putting my makeup on, so like.

There’s a lot of idle time, we.

Don’t need to make time to see each other ’cause we’re always together.

We’re very high school that way, where it’s like idle time we call each other like driving toy looking dinner, doing the things.

So that is.

Yeah.

19:17

Do.

Have you guys ever had, like, any major disagreements about anything?

No.

No, I think you.

Get going on vacation together with the whole family, which we haven’t been away together in a while and all eleven of us are going away May 20th for a week.

19:37

It’s a terrible time to go away because the kids are about to have exams, but who cares?

Oh, I yeah, it is the.

Worst time ever, but it’s only time that hockey and dance are done.

Oh my God, Oh my God.

That is going to be some trip.

That’s.

Are you going to record that?

19:54

Yes, of course it’s going to be the like the we we never been away all together with teenagers either, where they’re a lot more independent.

It’s so good.

It’s so.

That’s going to be, that’s going to be like ATV show of its own.

Just tell them what time they need to meet for lunch and what time they need to meet for dinner and it’s amazing.

20:12

I I no.

Making out with the employees Don’t get pregnant.

Our kids, aren’t you?

Want to pass those messages along, but it’s.

Going to be funny.

Or out the other.

Speaking of it’s the Dominican.

Yeah, you know something about that.

Oh my God, we’ve got.

20:31

Stories about the Dominican.

Oh, we don’t forget.

Oh, we don’t.

You see like a little 4 year old running around.

Yeah.

OK, so.

Keep on, we’re going to.

Pause here for a quick minute.

Have you ever said this?

Oh my God, look at this bag.

20:47

I’ve never even used it, but I spent so much money on it or I have to deal with my closet.

It’s a mess.

I really should consign some things, but I don’t have the time.

Or Oh my God, look at these old Gucci sunglasses.

They’re so out of style.

What am I going to do with them?

Easy.

21:02

Call the real, real.

You basically have a closet full of money waiting to be put into your pocket.

They come to you, they pick it up, they put it online, they sell it.

You get paid.

Seriously.

Yes, it’s true.

And I can personally tell you that I have done this myself and recouped thousands of dollars from clothing that I’m not wearing, bags and shoes that I’m not using.

21:26

It’s definitely worth it.

If you’re interested in consigning with the real real, just click the link in our show notes or in our link in bio on Instagram or Tiktok and fill out the form.

Make sure to add X experts.

That’s EXEXPERTS next to your last name, so they know the ex experts sent you.

21:45

I promise it’ll be worth it.

When we were getting divorced from our exes, we hope someone would take us by the hand and make sure we didn’t make any of the mistakes with our kids, dealing with our ex friends, dating, you name it.

So we created a divorce rule book for you.

22:02

You’re welcome.

We share what we wish we knew back then so you don’t make the same mistakes we did.

If you want your copy, all you have to do is go to EXEX perts.com.

It’s all there for you.

You don’t know what you don’t know, but the X experts do.

So, girls, when you can I ask, can I ask did?

22:21

People hear that and then they can hear what I say.

Yes.

Did.

Is that a like a online course or is it a book that you buy?

It’s a free download that you get when you go to our website.

We wrote a divorce rule book.

So you sign up for the divorce rule book by visiting our website.

22:39

Why don’t you charge for that?

You do?

Lead magnet, honey.

Lead magnet, Lead magnet.

Got it.

Got it.

Got it.

So, but I was going to say like when you guys, when you guys realize that a huge part of your audience is also people who were newly get divorced and likely continued on with people that are getting divorced.

22:56

What did you kind of offer at those events that you feel like was maybe different than elsewhere to be able to foster those relationships?

Actually all we did was bring them together and then Kat and I kind of just sat back and let them talk with each other and they took it away because they they had no one to talk to so and they had no one in their situation.

23:21

So it was just, you can imagine the verbal diarrhea that just came out because they finally had someone who understood what they were going through.

So we, you know, we did a few of those, but really for us it was just about connecting those women together because they lived in different parts of the city.

So we made them see each other in person a couple of times, and then they took it away from there because again, we didn’t have, we didn’t have any experience with knowing what it would feel like to be a divorce, a single mom with young kids.

23:47

So we had to let them do it together.

Yeah, but you created the environment, a safe environment for them to come to and they trusted you and so.

And they also probably felt, if they were followers of yours and they liked what you’re putting out, that they had those kind of similarities together, like like minded personalities.

24:05

Yeah, and Kat and I both came from single moms, and we saw what it was like for them.

So we had a little bit of an understanding of that need for connection because our moms were just, at the time, I think my mom didn’t have any divorced friends, so she was navigating on her own.

24:21

She didn’t have that group.

So we wanted to give these women something our moms didn’t have.

Well tell us a little bit about that though.

I I didn’t know that you guys both came from single moms.

So like what did you see as kind of the biggest challenges and and I’m sure you hear people.

24:38

We hear people all the time tell us and everybody else how terrible, what we’re such horrible people because we got divorced and how we’re like ruining our kids lives and and I.

God, are you serious?

All the time.

And we firmly believe that when you get divorced, regardless of the circumstances, if you then can be happy in your own life, you’re just more present and available for your kids and your kids see happy parents rather than like two people who are married who fucking hate each other.

25:05

That is such a less healthy environment to grow up in.

So I’m curious, like your take to people out there on being children who were not raised in two parent households, and how do you feel that affected you and what you think your mom’s biggest challenges were?

25:21

I think one thing that just, like crossed my mind was, and I know that you’re not supposed to be like this.

And I know a lot of people are like, you know, when you get married, you’re like, I am making this commitment for the rest of my life.

I think that when I personally got married, and I think I’ve always said this is I I’m not afraid of divorce, ’cause I I saw someone do it and come out like strong and and happy.

25:45

Now that if I’m not happy, well, I’m not going to.

It’s not a, it’s not a sentence to me.

It wasn’t like, I just want to be married to the same person for the rest of my life.

Like, I think when people are like, Oh my gosh, I just like can’t wait to have my 50th anniversary.

I’m like, I don’t even know if I really see the magic in that.

26:02

If they’re happy, that’s great.

But I never said to my in my mind I’m sure I didn’t tell Mark this, but I was just like, it might not really be forever.

It’s going to be for as long as I’m still into it.

But that’s a healthy people say like it’s it should be a constant conscious commitment, not like you’re stuck with this person.

26:23

Well, but also like I I was worried in particular about my oldest daughter because she wasn’t.

She like, wasn’t into boyfriends.

She wasn’t into any of that.

And I was thinking that it was related to, I don’t want to meet somebody because I don’t want to divorce.

26:39

And she now is in like, this guy is adorable and great, makes her happy and she’s totally herself.

But for a long time she was saying, you know, I’m not getting married because I don’t want a divorce.

And and I feel like a lot of kids of divorce do feel that way because it’s such like a looming black cloud.

27:01

You feel that way?

That was 18 months.

I know.

No different.

I didn’t know, no.

Different, but you didn’t want to not get divorced because of your situation.

No, I I I think that like we we make so much about nothing.

27:17

Like, I think it’s like, you know, it’s what you make it.

And if if it’s a big deal to you, then it’s a big deal to them.

And if it’s a if it’s horrific for you, it’s horrific for them, right?

Kids are watching.

You’re the you’re the barometer of.

I’m not saying it’s not hard at all, and I’m not saying it’s not not terrible, but I think it’s what you take from what your kids will take from it.

27:36

What you give them.

That’s what they’re going to do.

That’s what they’re going to take.

They they don’t know anything else.

It’s like, you know, in in some countries they have a nap at 3:00 everyday and that’s normal and they drink wine at 14.

And here it’s not like it’s what is whatever the norm is for them.

27:54

And I think that we’re in a lot more control of that than this, this whole world of it.

You know what people, what people want to say?

My kids were so young.

Like I said, they were two and four and so really they didn’t know much different.

We kept this, I worked full time.

We kept the same nanny and she would like she was the constant going back and forth between both homes.

28:13

And I remember people like, Oh my God, it must be so hard on them.

I’m like, they literally don’t have any consent.

Like they have nothing to compare it to.

It’s not that hard on them because we don’t make it hard on them.

Like how?

Exciting.

Are you to go to Dad’s this weekend or whatever?

Like I agree with you, it’s 100%.

28:31

If you’re walking around moping all the time, then that is what your kids are going to see and they’re going to and they’re going to carry that as like, but they’re a part of that.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think it’s the way you talk about your like, you know it’s it goes into everything of that they are half them, so you know it.

28:48

I think it’s how we as adults handle any situation because like you said, you can be married and it can be freaking terrible and you can, you know, complain like there’s no where you live and who you there’s people who get deployed for three years and you they could be divorced, but they’re just not they’re married but deployed.

29:05

Like, I think that, you know, the the emphasis on people not getting divorced because it’s going to ruin the children.

I I don’t know where that comes from, but.

And then the other thing is for, for the listeners that are divorced, and if they have some, spent some time moping around, like you said, it’s not too late to like, decide to make things better, ’cause I I know that for a lot of people, when they get divorced, they go through something so crushing that it’s just hard to get out of bed.

29:33

But you can go through those really hard times, I think, and then and then you can turn around.

So if you’re listening right now and you’re like, Oh my God, I’ve been moving around for so long, my kids are having a bad experience there.

Tomorrow you can change it too.

I also bet that most are a bit different version of themselves in front of their kids and you cannot feel like 100% yourself and your kids sometimes know that, but you’re you know, I think we’re harder on ourselves than our kids are often.

29:57

And it’s OK to move at home and be sad, but it, you know, you did just have to make it not your kids issue.

It’s it’s it’s an adult issue not your kids issue.

So I think, I think most are doing that.

I feel most are doing that.

It’s yeah, you have any shitty time.

It’s OK Yeah, we all have shitty times.

30:14

Yeah, you’re only human.

All right, we have a few rapid fire questions for you.

OK.

Favorite cocktail?

Tequila and vodka soda right now.

I don’t know it’s weird or not.

Yeah.

What kind of tequila?

What kind of tequila?

I don’t care.

I’m a tequila.

She’s a big tequila connoisseur.

30:30

I know she’s a respresado.

Mezcal, Mezcal.

OK.

Silver, Silver.

Yeah, yeah, I like.

Gin and tonic sometimes when it’s hot out.

Yeah, and I mean, I really don’t discriminate.

She likes everything.

30:47

You like all cocktails you don’t like?

All all cocktails.

I don’t like what?

Jägermeister.

Yeah, I thought of Jägermeister.

I like.

I like Fireball and Diet Coke.

Oh.

My God, I’ve to.

You know it doesn’t.

Discriminate.

31:03

We go to Vermont most weekends and we have two big shot skis up there that are usually filled with fireball.

So you’ll have to take a little drive down to Mount Vermont.

Wilmington by Mount Snow.

Nice.

So anyway, that’s where the fireball lands in the shot.

31:20

Ski.

OK, Jess, what are you binge watching?

Oh my God, the golfing one right now.

Fair game, I think.

What’s it called?

Fair game something the second season.

Sure it’s not a.

Swing.

Second season of swing.

31:36

Yep, I I just Google how much money they make and I can’t believe it.

Even the bad ones, because it’s the whole thing on live right now, like live golf and how much money they didn’t take.

And now they’ve merged back together again and like one guy left $170 million on the table to only have all these fuckers be able to come back and.

31:57

Play Oh my.

Yeah, that it is.

Actually wouldn’t I say.

I just can’t imagine what it would be like to be like, like, no, we’re for the game, the game, the game, and then like, actually we’re merging.

I and none of them knew.

But with the money, like I did that when I remember there was a college football coach a couple of months ago that I think was like pushed out and it was saying something about his salary.

32:23

He had like a five year, $100 million contract and I was like, what?

And I started, like, looking up all of these college football coach salaries.

I admire.

No idea.

I know the kind of money they.

I figured they were making like a million or two, not 10 million. 1000, you know, I Google.

32:41

I just sit there and Google.

I’m like, what’s his name?

And then I look at how much he’s made and how much he’s making and you know, ’cause the pressure to win to keep your lifestyle going, and if you.

Lose.

They fire you.

They don’t give a shit.

Oh my God, I just it’s really quite interesting.

Binge watching everything.

I’m watching more TV than I’ve ever watched, but I just watched The Baby Reindeer and I hated it.

33:01

And I don’t recommend.

Anybody who watches me?

It is just it doesn’t make you feel like a better person.

After watching I thought for sure like stalker crime, this is my this is my like, this is the recipe for everything.

I would love.

It just got grosser and grosser and I feel like everyone’s watching it and it’s number one on Netflix and I I wish I never saw it fair.

33:23

So what are you going to watch then?

What are you going to?

Watching.

I’ve been watching what’s it called Apple Falls or it’s on TV.

It’s a really good one on Apple.

TV.

No, it’s called like, not that.

You know how they say like the apple falls?

33:40

The.

Apple fall from a tree.

It’s a play on those words.

It’s really popular right now and you know a lot of the actors and you definitely know the main two actors and I can’t think of what their names are, but it’s a good one.

OK, that up.

OK, All right, good.

OK, So what do you do to relax?

33:56

No kids.

Husbands, what would you do?

I take a bath and I watch crime.

I’m like, I’m in bathtub.

Yeah, I do.

What would I do?

I just.

Like to like Apple never falls, apples never fall, apples never fall.

34:12

Got it.

I, you know, I I love my backyard, but it’s only useful like four months of the year.

So I just would go and I just like to sit back.

I literally could just sit in my backyard for hours and hours and hours and then more hours and just like go around there.

34:28

But it’s just not working out for me right now.

So maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow.

What was your like worst mom moment or mom truth that you had to deal with that you wouldn’t have necessarily thought?

Like for example, like mine was like one time I was alone with my kids and this like, piece of furniture fell on my daughter and I like, couldn’t get it up and I was like totally freaking out and it was like one of my worst.

34:55

I I have that that one moment I’ve never had such a panic and like had that like mother like thing but it’s really hard to describe but we did everyone have the ice storm that year where they oh on.

Halloween.

No, ours was Christmas Eve because you came to my house.

35:11

I.

Had to sleep at your house because everybody lost power and basically all the trees were covered in like water and snow and ice and then you’d be outside.

And I remember that we came outside and my husband was taking the ice off the car and he had a helmet on and I didn’t really think about it.

35:26

And I brought the kids out and my youngest one I was carrying, so I didn’t have a helmet on hand and it was the silence.

And then you heard.

Crack.

And after you hear the crack, that’s when I all the ice falls.

And I took the youngest and I put him inside my jacket and all the ice hit me on the head and I had like bumps all over my head.

35:44

And I came inside and it’s like I couldn’t, I couldn’t breathe.

It’s the scariest time I’ve ever had with the kids, and I’ve never really had a time like that since.

Even leaving Tucker behind on the dock was fine.

You know that what happened to you happened to me, but I I don’t remember what hat like a giant wood mirror fell on her.

36:03

The ones that like lean up on the thing and the glass all shattered on like she was underneath and the glass all shattered on her and she was underneath.

I all I remember is I picked up the I somehow it was like a £300 mirror and I somehow got it up really quickly and I picked her up and there was not one fucking scratch on her and there was glass everywhere and it fell over this way, like face forward, like it fell on to God.

36:31

I don’t know what was watching her that day but Oh my and she was young, she was like 18 months.

I just freaking picked her up and I I got it off, picked her up.

And.

I don’t remember it.

That’s a It was like a It was like.

A blacked out.

36:47

Yeah, I blocked it and I took her downstairs and I was like, I called him.

I think I called my mom and I was like, I need you to come and see if, like, she’s OK, ’cause I can’t.

She does.

She looks fine, but I can’t see.

This is weird.

My husband got home, was like, holy fuck, how’d you get this up?

And I’m like, I don’t know.

I My story was I was alone with my kids.

37:07

I was already separated.

So I was, you know, the only adult in the house.

And the TV went on downstairs.

Someone was breaking into the house.

So I called the police and they knew that I was a single mom because I I let them know when I moved in there.

37:23

Like, if I call, put like a star next to my name or something, Oh my gosh, I’m going to meet faster.

So I speak to them and they’re like, we’ll go in your kids room.

I’m like my kids room.

I got three kids.

Whose room am I going in?

Yeah, and my daughter hears everything.

She’s like, what’s going on?

37:39

I’m like, all right, well, that’s the kids room I’m going into, but God forbid you got to pick a kid.

Who’s Oh my God.

Picking So that was my Holy Shit Mom moment.

Why is the TV go on?

I don’t know, no.

Oh, it’s a ghost.

I’ve been.

I’ve been there.

37:56

Ghosts.

I don’t know.

OK, so what’s the one thing on your personal bucket list?

Like in life.

Yeah, something that you want for yourself that you want to do.

Have a warm house when we retire.

38:14

Yeah, I really want a beach house.

I don’t.

Want to be stuck?

Here, where would the beach house be?

I mean, I would love to say like some are exotic, but then they won’t, the kids won’t come visit you.

So I really need somewhere that they it’s a quick flight and like a Florida probably where they can come and you know, just like I want them, I want my kids to always want to come home and I want them to always want to bring people home.

38:41

So, and the flight has to be easy too, because we’re not bringing the husbands to live with us there.

They’ll be living here.

So we need to, like, you know, go back and forth.

Quick flight, quick weekend flight, you know I love.

It what was the last concert that you went to?

I haven’t been to one in and mine was probably a fucking kid concert, something so dumb and I can’t remember.

39:00

I don’t love concerts, so that’s a bad question for me, but I would go to Taylor Swift because it’s production.

Yes, they say.

She puts on a great show.

I don’t even need to know all the songs.

I would just go to that and I’d go to Pink and I’d go to Katy Perry.

I also would go to Pink.

39:16

The last one I went to was Billy Joel.

He does a residency here at Madison Square Garden.

He plays once a month.

Oh wow.

I’ve gone like probably close to 10 times.

His last show is in.

I went last month.

I should really come down and see.

Him the other night with my sister Friday night and then I’m hoping to go to his last show in July which I think will just be.

39:34

I just think he’ll have a lot of like guests come on and and do stuff.

I’m hoping anyway.

So I’m a huge I grew up like I feel like my dad was always playing Billy Joel and Elton John and things like that.

So I feel like when I’m and it’s a huge sing along, it’s like a 2 1/2 hour single.

Great.

His concerts are amazing.

39:50

There’s no production value really.

It’s just him out there at the piano with his band playing.

It’s fucking awesome.

Wait, fun fact.

Jessica and I met pink downtown Tribeca.

She was holding her daughter.

Her daughter was like 3.

40:08

She was online for the bathroom and Jessica whispers in her ears.

She’s like, we’re big fans.

Well, and I and I pointed her out to my daughter, who at the time I think was like 5.

And my daughter was like, I love raising my Raise your glass.

Really.

Is she married?

40:23

A divorce right now?

They go back.

No, they’re.

Back.

I think they’re remarried.

Yeah.

They’re to.

Get back together.

Yeah, like for the third time.

Yeah, that’s why she puts out great music, because they have an.

Interesting.

Rocky, right.

OK, last question of of rapid fire.

What’s your best piece of mom advice or life advice?

40:43

I would say like I and I’ve I’ve told myself this because I didn’t know in the beginning, but like never say never.

Like just because I’m in this place right now where my kid is doing this right now doesn’t mean that tomorrow I like, I don’t want to.

I don’t want to go and say like, Oh my God, I was sitting there being like that would never happen to me.

41:00

I would never do that.

Things change.

Be open minded.

I think also that, like, don’t be the person you think you should be.

Like, just be the person you are.

Because I think we beat ourselves up and we are like, oh, our kids, our kids.

41:16

I I should be.

I should be.

And your kids don’t care and the kids don’t know.

And if you waste all this time on who you’re not, they’re you’re just teaching them really unattainable things.

So just be who you are and freaking own it and love it, ’cause you’ll have a lot more fun in parenthood than if you keeping yourself up with your kids aren’t beating yourself up about, if that makes sense.

41:35

We beat ourselves up for things that I don’t feel guilty.

No one even cares about, but you do for some weird reason.

But your kids are like, can we just have fun?

Can you, like, stop being in a bad mood about what you’re not doing?

Just give me a hot dog.

I don’t need a 5.

Course meal Yeah, let’s just have fun.

Can we just be happy?

Can we move on?

Yeah.

I love it.

41:50

I love it.

All right.

Well, thank you guys so, so much for joining us.

We like, I said at the.

Beginning like TH.

Said Like, we’re huge fans.

We love watching you.

So for everyone listening like you will, love these women and we when are you coming to do a show in the New York area?

42:09

We are in Buffalo and we in Rochester and we in Boston.

Rochester is at Syracuse.

What about New York?

It’s Rochester area.

Oh, we need to do that.

Rochester.

OK.

Sorry, we’ll we’ll we’re going to get it in the calendar.

Why don’t you just come to New York for the weekend and leave the kids with with your husbands and we’ll go to Billy Joel?

42:26

Why?

Don’t we going to find that weekend all right and he’s going to be soon.

Because his last show is in July, he’s only playing three more times.

You can make anything happen.

Didn’t May just come here?

And I’m like, holy cow, where did you come?

From That’s what I mean while you’re wearing winter jackets.

42:41

So it hasn’t gone to you the right way yet, it.

Is confusing.

That is right.

You’re right.

When it’s warm, I’ll be like, oh, I get it now, but now I’m like.

What is it?

May Today?

It’s May Campus Week.

Oh yeah, it’s crazy.

Oh, thank you guys for having us.

Thank you guys and for everybody listening.

If you enjoyed this episode of the Divorce Etcetera podcast with the ex experts today, then please help a couple girls out.

43:01

It only takes a minute to subscribe, rate and review our podcast and it actually really helps us and other people like you that are dealing with divorce.

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43:18

Have a great day.

Thanks y’all.