Do you want to know what going through through a divorce is really like?

We talk a lot about what we wish we knew in order to help you by giving real examples of what you have to deal with, the time, the money, the emotion, and what we would have liked to have known when getting started in order to understand and manage our own expectations so that you can do that too.

0:21

That’s exactly what we’re talking about on today’s episode of the Divorce Etcetera podcast.

We have a great guest who’s been through it and even has a TV show coming about it to help you get through your process.

We’re the exEXPERTS TH and Jessica.

We help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life.

0:37

Let’s bring in today’s guest.

Hey everybody, TH here.

Jessica and I are really happy and can’t believe how long it’s been that we’ve known Alyssa Panets, the original divorce journalist, and haven’t had her on the show.

0:54

So I reached out to her not that long ago.

I’m like, it’s overdue.

It’s time.

We need to share you with everybody on X Experts.

So Ilyssa Panitz is the radio host for the Divorce Hour, which we were thrilled to be a part of.

And she has an upcoming TV show streaming on your home TV called The Ways Through Divorce.

1:15

So welcome to Divorce etc…, Ilyssa.

Thank you for having me honored.

Thank you so much for coming.

So spill it.

I mean, this episode is really to like help people kind of understand the realities of divorce.

1:30

And I always like to say it.

It’s not necessarily like misery loves company, but commiserating together about what it all is truly like.

I I personally find very helpful it when going through situations myself.

1:46

We know that that’s how how people relate.

So like, really start us off with some of the basics like how long you were married and at what point in your marriage you felt like things were going sideways.

I was married about 13 1/2 years.

2:01

We were together for 15 years.

I always say I knew something was wrong, but I really didn’t want to know what was wrong.

It’s easier to kind of just push everything under the rug.

And I say that because I was living a great life.

And if you want to take social media as an example, who wouldn’t want my life?

2:19

I was living in this beautiful house.

We were both making a lot of money.

We had the cute children, everybody’s families got along.

I mean, who wouldn’t want this life?

And so when problems were just like staring me right in the face and, and things were just like right there.

2:37

And I was like, hello.

I was just like, no, no, no, Well, eventually it catches up with you.

And when it did, it was, I think it was both sad, shocking, and yet it it, there was an epiphany moment in there as well.

2:56

And everything in that split second moment made a lot of sense.

And that’s when I knew we’re not going back.

We’re marching forward.

Can you share, like, what were some of the little, like, nuggets of red flags that were popping up making you think things didn’t feel right?

3:13

So people who are listening and thinking maybe the same things in their marriage will like be able to understand.

I think your gut tells you a lot.

I mean a lot.

A lot of excuses that weren’t adding up, if that makes if that makes sense.

3:31

Not knowing anything about about the money, a lot of times if I would ask questions, I was just sort of shoe shooed away.

And you’re complaining about what are you saying to you Not trust me, I think that was a big one as well.

But again, I was running a celebrity magazine.

3:48

I was taking care of kids.

I was juggling everybody’s lives.

I was commuting.

So when, when, when it ain’t broke, so to speak.

You think, all right, then I guess I don’t have to fix it.

I mean, everything was running the way I thought it was supposed to run, but it really wasn’t.

And when I decided to file for a divorce, that’s when it really hit me in the face.

4:08

And these were all the things I say.

I should have paid attention.

I should have paid attention, and I chose not to.

And now I’m paying the price.

Well, when you say paying attention, I mean, I, I literally you’re telling my story, right?

4:23

I was with him 15 1/2 years.

I was married about 13 years.

I My biggest rule in our divorce rule book is to trust your gut.

And that’s in relationships, that’s in life, that’s in conversations, that’s with your health.

4:40

Like if your gut’s telling you something, you can trust it.

But The thing is that the fear is what’s preventing you from wanting to know.

Well, if I know, what am I gonna do about it?

Like what’s on the other side of knowing?

4:55

So if you were truthful that you know about the money and about the way he’s speaking to you and about the way you’re feeling, then then you need a whole other job for an action plan, right?

And you don’t have time for that.

And also, we don’t want it to be like that.

5:11

Like you can’t wish it away, can’t wish it away and you can’t fix people.

And so I think just to extend on what you’re saying about trusting your gut, those are other things that you really need to know.

I so want you to be able to wish it away.

5:28

There’s nothing more than I would have loved than to have been able to fix people.

But those are not things that we as humans are capable of doing.

So how did you get to the point of accepting where you are in order to say I want a divorce?

5:45

Because to mutter those words, you must have gotten some shit together before you, you know, in your own head, even if it’s not actually like logins and, you know, statements and stuff like that, what were you telling yourself to be confident in your choice?

6:06

I really just didn’t have a choice.

For me, there was no other choice.

The problem was, I always say I could have started in the movie clueless because I was clueless about what to do.

I just knew I had to do it.

And so I just, I just called somebody I knew and unfortunately they were the wrong person.

6:26

But I, I just knew that I had to get out and but I didn’t know what getting out entailed.

And I learned the hard way through a lot of mistakes and also through.

I hate saying that’s a very broken system that really doesn’t protect people the way that it should.

6:46

And even though my show, my platform is for everybody, I will say at least where I went through a divorce, it does not do enough to protect women.

And so when women call me all the time and I get these phone calls or these emails all the time, I always make the time because I know what they’re up against.

7:07

And I’m here to tell you it’s it’s not always fair.

You said you make it.

You made a lot of mistakes.

You learned the hard way by making a lot of mistakes.

What are some of the mistakes you made that if you knew now better going in, you know that you would be?

Able to avoid, oh number one, not paying attention to the money.

7:24

I mean, that was my biggest mistake.

And you know, my former spouse worked in it and so I just assumed, OK, I don’t need to pay attention to it anymore.

I got married much later in life.

I was doing all my own finances.

I was making sure all the bills were paid.

But now I have somebody who can help me do it because as I said, I’m, I’m working, I’m taking care of kids and, and all the other responsibilities that we have.

7:47

And that became my biggest downfall because the first thing that I had to do when I just hired an attorney was they took out this big stack of papers and was called the statement a net worth.

And I was like, you know, going through the tissues and crying about the circumstances, chances, and they wanted to get right down to the numbers.

8:06

How much do you make?

How much does you know the other side make?

What’s your mortgage?

And you know, what are your cars?

Do you buy?

Do you lease?

How much do you spend?

And the dry clean.

And they were going through all these questions and the only words I can respond with were I don’t know, and this.

8:22

And it just kept going and going until I just started screaming.

And I think the last time I said it, I just got up.

I, I, I pushed the chair from behind.

Hey, man, I was pulling my hair, screaming, I don’t know.

And it was the most vulnerable feeling in the entire world, not knowing.

8:41

And I, I, I kicked myself because I used to do this all the time.

And then I was like, I got nothing.

OK, other than the money when you went to your lawyer or you realize that I’m curious whether or not like even through the process, the beginning of the process you made mistakes air quotes that you maybe you wouldn’t have made those decisions in pursuing.

9:08

Well, you said you called somebody and they were the wrong person.

So what made that person the wrong person?

They weren’t seasoned enough for all the complications that the divorce involved.

Was it a friend or a lawyer?

9:25

Yeah, yeah.

So this was somebody I was very close with and their spouse was a was a divorce attorney and had me work with a colleague of theirs who they swore by.

But this colleague was way too green.

9:43

And when I saw what was happening, I knew, wait a second, we got a problem because even though I didn’t know a lot about the divorce process, I knew I was getting my butt kicked because they did not know how to advocate and protect me and the children.

9:59

The other problem was how to deal with and handle the people in the courts ’cause this went to court very quickly and at the time where I got divorced, they used to have something called court attorney referees.

Now their job is to act like mediators to help you both try to settle matters so you do not have to go to the judge.

10:19

Nothing they say is binding, but they do try to help you resolve the issues and set deadlines so you can hopefully find a solution.

The Accord attorney referee, when I was trying to bring certain things to their attention, was constantly Pooh poohing me and and really advocating for the other side.

10:38

It wasn’t until my case got looked at by the district attorney’s office that the District Attorney got involved at one point.

And I think the first thing they said to me was where are the courts?

And I was just, I cried.

I’m like, I don’t know.

I don’t know.

10:54

It was it was you just feel I I’m just trying to find the right words like.

Marginalized, yeah.

I think you feel, I think you feel helpless and I think you feel like a victim all over again because we have this perception that when we go to court that the league system is going to do right by the people who are seeking justice.

11:24

And when you have strong and credible evidence and they don’t acknowledge it and they try to just do away with it, it is, it is just you just feel, you just feel so victimized.

And you say to yourself, well, wait a second, where is the system that I grew up learning about that, you know, don’t, don’t break the law and don’t all these things that we were taught in school and, and through our parents and where are they to help?

11:52

And they weren’t there.

And I think that’s when the light bulb went off.

Fast forward to summer 2020 when I knew, you know, I, I, I got to do something because nobody else is out there trying in, in my, in my space, in my industry where I had worked trying to educate people in a way that people can understand.

12:17

And I can’t tell you I can help you find the solutions, but at least I can help get you educated, get you informed, and hopefully find the right people who can help you navigate through this very difficult transition.

We, we really, you know, we’re so much aligned with you like that.

12:36

That’s the whole purpose of X experts existing is to empower you with knowledge to make the best choices for yourself and your family.

And the reason I kind of dug back into why that person was the wrong person is because, you know, we jumped the gun.

12:53

Like I, I went, she said, to hire this woman.

So I hired that lawyer and, and you know, I got what I got, but it took four years.

And now looking back, there are so many things I would have had a voice.

I, I, it was four years with this person.

13:09

I think I found my voice at like 3 1/2 years in.

And to really remember that they work for you and your, your lawyer is not your therapist, but your relationship with your lawyer has to be as trustworthy as with your therapist.

13:28

They are speaking on your behalf.

So again, going back to trusting your gut, Alyssa, that was so important that you pivoted there because you could have gotten sucked in even longer.

Spend money knowing it wasn’t the right direction for you.

13:45

It wasn’t the right way to advocate for you and your girls and all of those things.

So I just wanted to go back and really acknowledge that and applaud you because it’s just none of this is easy, everybody, none of it.

But you are not alone.

14:01

And that’s why we brought a list on the show, so the three of us can really share what we wish we knew and highlight the things that you need to do.

And I love what you said that’s interrupt, but I love what you said being your own advocate.

And you really have to.

And I’m not, I’m not putting anybody down ’cause I work with a lot of attorneys and I and I love the ones that that I work with.

14:23

But you’re a job to them.

And so after they’re done with your case, they’re moving on to somebody else.

This is your life.

They’re not gonna be living your life.

And so they can say this is what we want.

No, this is not what what the courts and what you, AKA my attorney wants.

14:40

How about what I want with my children?

Nobody’s asking what I want.

And this is where people are scared to ask.

And I love what you said.

They work for you and it’s not the other way around.

And everybody gets timid and they’re like, I’m scared to talk to my time.

14:57

Like if you’re scared to talk to your attorney, they are not the right attorney for you and they should not be bullying you.

OK, Remember, you’re signing their paychecks and everybody in that office.

So let’s be very clear about the roles here.

I remember and I had three different attorneys and because two of them just could not handle the complexities of my, of my situation, but I had one attorney who was speaking down to me and I was, I was, there was a lot of domestic violence in my situation and I was very discombobulated through the whole process.

15:30

But I did have this one moment where I was like, I’m sorry, is there are, are the letters Jay-Z next to my name?

And the person went, no, I said then if I ask you 100 times, it’s ’cause they don’t understand.

And I’m holding this order of protection, I now have to live my life so differently because of this situation.

15:48

So if I don’t understand and I’m paying you to explain it to me, you’ll explain it to me until I understand.

And you will sit here with me until I can make the right decisions for me and my family.

And I’m just like I pay you and a lot of these attorneys, especially in the tri-state area where I am based, as you guys know, run anywhere from 500 to over $1000 an hour.

16:12

For that amount of money.

You will listen to your clients.

And I tell clients all the time, you do have a voice.

You have to remember that you do have a voice.

You are allowed to speak up.

Don’t be disrespectful.

I said because you know you want to work with this individual, but it’s like you said, your attorney, that’s the most intimate relationship.

16:33

They need to know everything.

There’s nothing they haven’t heard, so nothing should be off limits.

But if you feel a decision is being made that you know when your heart is not the right one, you speak up.

Yeah, 100%.

We’re going to pause here for a quick minute because when Jessica and I were getting divorced from our exes, we hope someone would take us by the hand and make sure we didn’t make any mistakes with our kids, dealing with our ex, dealing with our lawyers, all of the things.

17:03

So you’re in luck.

We came up with something called the Divorce Rule Book and we created this just for you.

And along the lines of what we are talking about with Alyssa today, we share what we wish we knew back then so you don’t make the same mistakes we did.

17:19

If you want your copy, all you have to do is visit exexperts.com and it’s right there for you.

You don’t know what you don’t know, but the ex experts do.

So Alyssa, let’s move into a little bit of kind of like the emotional state because I think also sometimes people mistakenly assume if you’re the one asking for the divorce, like it’s not going to be that hard.

17:42

It won’t be that necessarily emotionally exhausting for you.

Or sometimes people think the complete opposite.

Whereas in this case that totally wasn’t the case.

Like that was really the answer for her to get out.

So help people understand like the roller coaster of emotions, both good and bad.

18:03

Oh, there’s so many.

You don’t even, I tell people you don’t even know what you’re in for.

Brace yourself.

It is a wild ride, especially if you’re in a contentious situation.

It is, it is a wild ride that nobody prepares you for.

And the one thing you have to do is you guys know so well is you’ve got to talk to somebody.

18:20

You’ve got to have a therapist, a strong therapist, somebody who has experience dealing with what you’re dealing with to help you through it.

The other thing that was so helpful for me as well was getting involved with exercise.

I joined a class that was very like a boot camp and I would go in there, it was like 15 minute workout and I would come out there crawling.

18:45

For me, it was the best therapy in the whole wide world because I got to just take out all my tension.

I would sometimes just cry when we were like on the treadmill and the music, if something triggered, it was amazing for me.

It just kept my stress level as down as you could in a very difficult situation.

19:05

Work also became very important for me because being at my office, I would just kind of get entrenched in what was going on there.

And before I would walk through the front door, I would close my eyes, take a deep breath and be like, we’ve everything with the divorce out here, we’re going in and like, you know, we’re going to do a good job today.

19:25

But, you know, and finding friends who understood.

And that was also one of the key things is having the right support system.

And that was just vital because your friends who don’t go through it don’t understand.

They don’t know what to say to you.

They don’t know how to talk to you.

19:43

They can let you cry, but you need somebody who gets it.

And that’s why I love what the two of you do, because you get it.

And yeah.

It’s funny, I I felt for me that work also my career has always been important to me.

19:58

But I felt like literally the next day.

I had to wake up in the morning and go to work and that was on a Friday and on Monday I was starting a new job.

And in.

Retrospect, I shouldn’t even say in retrospect.

I think I even realized it at the time.

20:15

Like once I started the job, it was so all-encompassing that when I walked in in the morning all I was focused on was my show, which was going live at 5.

Nothing else mattered.

I was on such a tight deadline every day that I didn’t have the time to be like moaning and groaning and feeling sorry for myself and dealing with with all of the divorce stuff.

20:37

I was also, I think in a sense kind of lucky my kids were so little two and four that they also went to bed fairly early.

So when I came home, like I had hours on end in the evenings to really deal with that kind of stuff.

But like, I think it’s really hard for a lot of women who have left the workforce and or who have chosen to be stay at home moms.

20:58

But we always encourage people to find, if it’s not a new job, a hobby, groups that you can involve yourself in, fundraising, volunteering like.

Tears that can be.

Fulfilling for you and that can take your time and attention away from the divorce because nobody can live 24/7 with the divorce stuff.

21:21

You, you have to have a place to let it go.

And so if it’s not going to be work, it needs to be something that’s sort of similar that you are spending time doing where you have the opportunity to like have a little bit of escape.

I love the gym thing too.

I mean, I think for anyone going through hard times, the gym can be very cathartic.

21:42

I I not only is it cathartic, you look great.

You look great.

Right.

I remember I had to go to court and I think it was like summer and I was in this dress, but it was like very fitted.

21:58

And my attorney’s like for a girl who’s going through a divorce, damn girl.

And I remember just hearing that and like people in the in the hallway would smile because you know, of how I was, how how I looked.

And it was the best ego boost.

And it’s hard to have an ego boost when you’re going through a divorce.

22:15

Just yourself, yourself worth yourself confidence.

It’s like like bam, right in the toilet kind of thing.

And it made me feel really good about myself.

Also when you’re when you’re working out and you’re sweating and, and there’s just something, they release all the endorphins, as you guys know.

22:31

And it just made me feel great.

And when I would walk out, if I had a text from the attorney or if there was something that needed my attention, I felt like, you know what, I can deal with this.

I feel a little bit better right now.

It’s OK.

I’ve got a little bit more clarity.

My head is like a little bit clearer right now, you know?

22:49

Bring it on.

I think between both of those things, I boxed for a long time and I got to tell you, the sound of hitting that bag, I didn’t even like have to put a face on the bag.

It was just like, that’s where I was kind of vomiting my whatever was inside of me was, you know, spewing over a boxing bag.

23:09

But between Jessica having, you know, that significant structure and I had a little less structure, but I was still working.

But working out has been always paramount in my life and mostly because that’s the only place where I didn’t have to think.

23:29

But that’s when I had clarity to my thoughts.

Does that make sense?

Like, you know, when you’re focused, so focused in reading and doing and whatever, and then when there’s quiet time, all of a sudden, like la, la, la, think about this and don’t forget that.

And and it becomes more impactful because it’s not clouded with with a ton of noise.

23:49

So for me, that’s what hiking has been for me a lot.

And so I think all of this though, is about taking time for yourself.

So whether it’s in your career and, or working out and, or reading or whatever The thing is, literally put it on your calendar.

24:10

It is a priority because you’re not going to be able to stand up in court and be confident, and you’re not going to be able to speak up at work and you’re not going to be able to be empathetic with your kids if you don’t literally schedule the time for yourself.

24:26

And all of us are different.

I mean, I can’t tell you how rewarding volunteer work is.

If you go and you’re serving others, you’re like, holy shit, I’m, I’m productive #1 I’m serving other people, which is tremendously fulfilling and will boost your confidence and all three of us, I’m sure.

24:49

I know for me and I see you guys now, we all have like a glow and an air about us.

And that’s what happens when you shed that dark dead skin off of you and that bad energy and, and you’re going to go up and down, but in the end, you are fully going to shine.

25:09

So, you know, Ilyssa had a really difficult marriage and an ongoing divorce and mine was hugely contentious for four years.

And Jessica is a Truex expert because she chose to do it twice.

But we are all good.

25:26

That is the end.

Game.

You want to be good.

The shit is the.

Shit, but make time for yourself.

Trust your gut.

Remind yourself that these people work for you.

Educate yourself.

So you are coming into this in a position of power, not in a position of weakness.

25:45

We all made mistakes.

He took care of the money.

I didn’t want to hear this.

I like to be home at night.

We’ve told ourselves a million excuses and that’s all fine because you’re not alone.

We’ve all done it.

But that doesn’t define what your future will be.

26:02

So that is like my overall message and bringing this all together today with you.

Ilyssa, thank you so much for coming.

You guys are.

Going to be great.

I mean, you’re literally going to be great.

You don’t see it today, but it is there and you’re coming.

26:18

It’s coming.

I always tell my kids in life, you have one of two options.

My suggestion is take the better two and then a divorce.

You can either crawl up and cry and yes, you need your 24 hours, or you can go show the world who you are.

26:34

And as you guys know, there’s so many beautiful things that can come of it.

You guys have a successful podcast and book and you’ve done so many amazing events to help others and you guys are continue to thrive and and other things that you know that you’re doing with your careers.

And I mean, so many amazing things can come out of it and it really is an opportunity.

26:53

I love that you give people hope.

Yeah.

Thank you and you.

Too and for everyone out there, if you enjoyed this episode of Divorce Etc… with the exEXPERTS today then please help 2 girls out.

It only takes a minute to subscribe, rate and review to the podcast and it actually can really help us and other people like you that are dealing with divorce.

27:12

For more about Ilyssa and all of her shows and the articles that she writes as the only divorce journalist, check out the show notes.

And of course, share this episode with anyone you know who can benefit from listening.

Have a great day.