FULL TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to another episode of the exEXPERTS DIVORCE etc… Podcast where we give you all kinds of information and tips on everything divorce. Why? We’ve lived it, so we get it! We’re T.H. & Jessica. 

Jessica: Welcome to today’s podcast. We are so, so excited to have with us today Gabrielle Stone who is the author of the amazing book, ‘Eat, Pray, #FML’, which stands for Eat, Pray, Fuck My Life (FML). I was just telling her the funniest story is that Leo, my second husband, is the one who had actually turned me on to her many moons ago. And so I’ve been following her for so long. I feel like her voice just totally resonates with who we are, what we’re doing with exEXPERTS, but also just for me personally. It’s totally the way that I talk.

T.H.: It’s definitely so you, Jessica.

Jessica: Right? It’s like you wrote the book that I should have fucking written. And so we finally had the balls to reach out to her and have her on today to talk to us. Thank you so much for taking the time. Welcome to our podcast.

Gabrielle: You’re so welcome. I knew the second I heard the title, I was like, yes, this is my people. This is where I’m supposed to be.

T.H.: Jessica is definitely like the more, I don’t want to say scandalous, but a little more of crude person than I am.

Jessica: That’s fair.

T.H.: So of course, I went to her and I’m like, I don’t know what FML means.

Gabrielle: I love it.

T.H.: She told me and I was like, oh, now I understand. I literally was Googling FML. What does FML mean?

Jessica: I should have been like ask your kids.

T.H.: I should have, but then they would think I’m an idiot so I can’t do that.

Gabrielle: I love it. Well, you’re not alone. You’re not the only one that needed to learn what the acronym stood for.

T.H.: Yeah, yeah.

Jessica: So obviously, we have a list of questions to ask you. But I really just want to start with–I mean, obviously, it’s such a funny play on words, the title of the book, but how did that title specifically come about?

Gabrielle: Well, I guess we should start with giving people just a little preface of what the general overview story is so I don’t start talking about things and people are like, who’s that? What does she mean?

T.H.: You have to read the book. You have to read the book.

Gabrielle: Alright, but for the conversation, I was married for almost two years. I found out my husband was having an affair with a 19-year-old for six months. I filed for divorce, left, and shortly after that I met this guy and we fell madly in love with each other. I had this whirlwind romance of like, meet my family, have my babies, all the fairy tale bullshit. He convinced me to join him on a month-long trip to Italy with him. 48 hours before we were getting on the plane, he told me he needed to go by himself. I was absolutely devastated. He broke my heart like my ex-husband never could have done. And at that moment, sitting on my bed in a pool of tears with a bottle of wine, I had a decision to make. That was either stay at home heartbroken or go travel Europe for a month by myself. I took a backpack and a leather-bound journal and did six countries over the span of a month and wrote ‘Eat, Pray, FML’ about it. So to answer your question, it was actually when I had a conversation with the man that dumped me right before the trip, whose character name is Javier in the book. We had a conversation after he initially told me, and I was like, I’m still going to go on the trip. He dropped me off at my house from that conversation and was like, how are you feeling Gabs? And I was like, like I’m about to go on a journey of ‘Eat, Pray, Fuck My Life’. And that’s the title of the book I’m going to write.

Jessica: There you go.

Gabrielle: It just kind of hit me. I had never seen the movie. I had never read the book. Yeah, I mean, of course, I knew of it. Everybody knows of it. I went in that night before leaving on our trip the next day and watched Eat, Pray, Love and remember being like, holy shit, this is literally my life. Like, what the fuck?

Jessica: That’s so funny. So do you believe that the universe presents opportunities and some you see and others you don’t?

Gabrielle: I’m a huge believer in everything happens for a reason. Sometimes, as you said, you just can’t see it until you’re a little more removed from the situation. But even with how heartbroken I was during all of this, I mean, I had never had my heartbroken, and it was in a blender, drank it like a smoothie, and shat it out the other end. It was bad. I was devastated. And even with all of those emotions, I knew that the universe was working in a very deliberate way and that this was happening for a reason. When I was a little girl, I lost my dad pretty dramatically. I walked in and found him dead on the floor when I was six years old, and then lost my high school sweetheart in a car accident when I was 18. And from those two things, I had always carried this belief of fear of abandonment, and when I love someone, they leave me. This was the universe’s clear way of making me go face that shit head-on like, oh, you’re scared to be alone? Cool. It’s time to go heal that across the world, Gabrielle, by your damn self.

T.H.: You have to go that far sometimes.

Gabrielle: I was like, alright, here we go.

T.H.: Sometimes you have to go that far. And also, I want to say that for everybody listening, everybody has their own shit, right? Everyone’s been on different journeys, but it takes a long time and a lot of growth, and a lot of little steps to be able to speak the way that Gabrielle’s speaking right now about her past and her relationships and what she’s learned. Jessica and I, separated from our husbands at the same time because they were outed at the same time for cheating on each of us with other women at the same time for multiple years. We had each other, but we had to grow a lot before we could be in a place for a platform of any type to really be talking about it. Just it’s a matter of fact. Like now it’s a matter of fact. Back then it was a shitstorm. I couldn’t even put a word to it. We just knew our guts sucked and like for you, you got a bottle of wine and you’re crying, but you don’t really know what’s happening. But here I am. Just everybody knows it’s not an overnight thing, but we are perfect examples of what’s ahead for you if you just keep moving forward, so kudos to you.

Gabrielle: 100%. I always remind my readers, who are now my listeners on my podcast, FML Talk, that healing isn’t linear. You always are going to ebb and flow.

Some days, you feel like you’re on top of the frickin world, and you’re like, I’m a badass, and I’m going to conquer the entire day. And some days, you’re like, why do I feel like I’ve taken 10 steps back and I just want to crawl in bed and cry? Both are valid. And both are okay. You have to be patient with yourself while you go through it.

Jessica: T.H. and I have had conversations because of our stories, as she just mentioned. I too am always like all my shit is out there. I have an open book with no filter. I just will say things before I even think about it. My kids were really, really little when we got divorced. T.H.’s were also really little, but a little bit older. Mine were two and four, and she had three under eight. And so from the very beginning, I was always really open with people in my life and everybody about what happened. Like, he totally had an affair, and we are very amicable. I’m actually like I would consider both of my ex-husbands amongst my closest friends.

Gabrielle: I love that.

Jessica: Thank you. It just worked out that way. It’s exactly what I wanted it to be. I didn’t have any kids with the second one. It was just more of an issue of compatibility. There really wasn’t a reason. It wasn’t like a cheating scandal or anything like that. But we talk a lot about how it’s our–well, I do. It’s my story. So whether or not my ex number one has any issues with me talking about the fact that he had an affair, that’s not my fucking problem. It happened. I know that there are times where the woman that he had the affair with, and who he stayed with for a while, I think has been irked by things that I’ve spoken about. I’ve never named her by name, but anybody in my life knows who it is. I also kind of feel like too fucking bad. This is my life and my story. So T.H. and I were talking about how you’ve written this book that neither of us could have necessarily written because of the kids and because of things like that. I’m just curious, was there ever any part of you where you were, not having second thoughts, but any consideration to what that may have been from his side? Or were you like, fuck it, this is totally my story, and I’m putting it out there?

Gabrielle: Oh, girl, you’re preaching to the fucking choir. It’s different for the two men that are involved that have supporting characters in the book. I wasn’t even at first going to write about how I found out about the cheating and all the ins and outs of it. I was just going to be like, I got cheated on, I got divorced, and then all this shit happened. Because that’s, I mean, you guys have read the book, you know that that’s the meat of the story. The marriage and the dissolution of it was a very, very small part. It just kind of sets the stage for all the other crazy stuff that went down.

Jessica: And all of your awesome reels on Tik Tok. I mean, all of the videos are good.

Gabrielle: Thank you. And so I went to dinner with one of my girlfriends when I came back from Europe and I was finishing up the book. I was like, yeah, I’m not really writing in detail about that. And she said, no, Gabrielle, you have to write about that. That shit was like an episode of CSI and women are going to connect to that. And so I went back and it’s still only like three chapters in the book, but I never really was like, oh, how is he going to feel about this, or maybe I should be careful. I stand by every word in that book, in both of the books. I have people that have read them that aren’t written about very fantastically and know that all of it’s true. I’ve had every type of person. Javier, the man that broke up with me before Europe, I was a lot more conscious about protecting him because I was still very much in love with him when I was writing this book. I had always fiercely defended him and his decisions even when I was heartbroken. He knew the whole time that I was in Europe that I was writing this book. He signed a release for me, as did his mother and sister, for me to include text messages between us. He was very, very supportive of the first book. Does that mean I sugarcoated it? No. I didn’t have to dredge up any drama or tread lightly on certain situations, because as you said, it might suck for some people, but you own whatever happened to you. That is your story to tell. So, yes, is my ex-husband seething and very upset and having temper tantrums and trying to retaliate because my reels on TikTok are blowing up and becoming national news? Yes. Do I care? No. It’s helping tons and tons of women around the world. I mean, for that price, okay, I’m sorry you’re upset. I’m sorry you’re unhappy with your actions. But it’s true.

T.H.: You’re not really sorry. Why should you even be sorry? I heard you did a podcast with Jacqueline about questions that people brought in and your answers. It was very interesting to me because there were some questions that you’ve definitely heard before, and your immediate response was ugh. And then she challenged you with questions that you weren’t expecting, and it was quiet. I love the way that she challenges you but bounces it out. She did say some things about Daniel and Javier and everything like that, and something else everybody should know is, as I’m sure you feel, Jessica, and I do feel, as we do more podcasts and we meet more people, and we’re helping so many people, the truth is we’re also helping ourselves.

Gabrielle: Oh yeah.

T.H.: We learn something about ourselves every time we have a conversation because we’re that much further ahead than we were back then. Maybe even six months ago. And so learning and growing is all a part of this. I think it’s great. I love the way that she challenged you. Jessica does it to me, and I have no problem calling Jessica out on certain shit sometimes.

Gabrielle: You’re right because that’s what we need. I know what podcast episode you’re talking about. It was the first time I really opened up about some of the Javier stuff. Through doing those podcasts, I’ve continued my healing around that subject. I’ve been able to now without those love goggles on, look at the facts of the situation and be like, oh, right, this was really not okay. I shouldn’t have been defending this behavior.

Jessica: What kind of things do you feel like you were defending back then but now in retrospect you’re like, I shouldn’t have?

Gabrielle: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of things that I write about in the sequel, The Ridiculous Misadventures of a Single Girl, where the ebbs and flows of Javier and I continued. There were things that from the outside looking in, people were like, that’s narcissistic behavior. That’s absolutely not okay to say to someone. For one, there was a time when we weren’t together, we were FaceTiming. I had gone to a premiere the night before, this big red carpet thing, and I posted a photo and I looked fucking fabulous, might I add. He was like, I don’t really like it when you wear bold colored lipstick. The angles in your face, it just doesn’t work.

Jessica: Rather than ‘you look gorgeous’.

Gabrielle: Excuse me? I was like I’ve worn bold colored lipstick since you’ve met me. He’s like, yeah, I mean, it’s just like, I don’t know, there’s something about it. I was like, well, I’m not wearing it for you. He was like, no, no, I’m sorry, of course. You looked beautiful last night and tried to gloss over it and continue.

T.H.: You can’t take it back.

Gabrielle: But even then, I let it roll off my shoulders. Now looking back on it, I’m like, are you freaking kidding me dude? The audacity of my ex who was still trying to sleep with me to comment on my appearance and something that I felt and looked beautiful in. How dare you think that it had anything to do with you?

Jessica: Right. So I totally relate to you in terms of the whole everything happens for a reason. I believe even when you can’t see it at the time, the universe works in very calculated ways. That’s something that I’ve really been, I don’t want to say struggling with, but working through for my second marriage. Because, I mean, the compatibility aspect was so not there, that sometimes I think to myself, how did it happen that we got married? But now we are so close. I feel like he is such an important part of not just my life, but my kids’ lives, that I’m like, there was a purpose for him to come into my life and for this to happen and for us to be married because he adds value every day. What do you think was Javier’s purpose?

Gabrielle: Oh my god, are you kidding? I can give you answers to what Daniel’s purpose was, my ex-husband, and Javier, like everybody. If you look at the blueprint of my life, you’re like, oh, of course, she needed to meet this asshole and he needed to cheat on her. She needed to get her heartbroken by this particular person. Javier was the catalyst to my healing journey. I never in a million years would have booked a solo trip across the world and then like, I’m just going to take a backpack and go. I would have gone with a girlfriend or my mom or a friend. I never would have had the courage to do that. And because it happened so last minute before I could make any plans, it forced me out of my comfort zone to really take the leap and just go all in. And more so, even though, yes, I learned to love myself on that trip. Yes, I learned how to rectify some of my deep abandonment wounds on that trip. But I wrote that book on that trip. I wrote 3/4 of ‘Eat, Pray, FML’ on the streets of Barcelona, in cafes in Paris, and on a train to Amsterdam. That was like my healing for me. I don’t know where I would be without this book. This book only happened because of the events that took place in my life and because of the men that pushed me over the edge. I would do it again, all of it, all the heartbreak, all of it 10 times over, to be able to be where I’m at now helping so many women and men around the world. It’s been the most fulfilling thing I’ve done. It’s created an entirely new career for me. I’m very thankful to him and that relationship. I look back on it, and I learned so much about what’s important in a partner that I didn’t have on my non-negotiable list when I was younger. There are so many reasons.

Jessica: What have you added to your non-negotiable list?

Gabrielle: Well, I think when we’re in our 20s, you go on a date, and you’re like, so what kind of car does he drive? And how does he look physically?

T.H.: Right. Where do you work?

Gabrielle: Does he have any kids? Are the checklist items there? And now you sit down and you’re like, have you been to therapy? What’s your relationship with your mother? Do you have an emotional intelligence rating? It’s so different. And really, communication, and someone that has done enough work on themselves to know about triggers, know how to protect them, and to really be open to continuing to do the work as a couple. My current boyfriend and I, we have a therapist. We don’t go weekly, but we go whenever there’s something that we know needs to be discussed together and individually. We really continue to put that work into our relationship because it really, really takes that incredible communication with the love to be able to have a successful relationship.

T.H.: Do you think you are transitioning from FML to LML?

Gabrielle: What’s LML?

T.H.: Love My Life!

Jessica: Love My Life!

Gabrielle: Oh! I’m like, is that a new one? I have to Google it.

T.H.: Alright! Look at me. Did everybody hear that? Did everybody hear that?

Gabrielle: I love it.

T.H.: I definitely get points for that right now.

Gabrielle: Oh my god, I love it. Yes, totally. I have been in the LML state for quite some time now. Is everything perfect? Absolutely not. There’s always something that comes up in life and we go on the roller coaster ride of it. But I’m so incredibly thankful for the two books I’ve written, the number of people it’s reached, the community on the podcast. I mean, I was an actor and director before all this happened. This quite literally changed my career. Yes, I still do all those things, but this is my main income. It’s my main purpose. It really is the most fulfilling part of my life. I can’t imagine not having gotten my heart broken and going on that trip.

T.H.: I will say, I did say it in an email to you, but just so that everybody knows, I read the first book. I’m waiting for the second book. I love that you picked the name, Javier. I just feel Javier sounds very appropriate for whatever you’re going for. But throughout this book, you talk about a thought onion, which I still haven’t figured out how to do for myself. I feel like I need a lot of therapy to do that and I’m very good with myself. But what I will say and encourage everybody to do is to read these books, because the way she puts the lessons in there is perfect. It’s not a self-help book. You’re not like, oh, I need to write this down and I need to post it here and turn this page. You’re reading it and absorbing it. She’s just naturally reinforcing it because of her transparency. I think that’s why, honestly, you’re resonating with so many people. I think that the more we talk about the struggles and obstacles in each of our lives, people are less alone. We are going to resonate with someone who’s like, god, I felt the same way. Or it doesn’t even have to be the action. Like, for Jessica, two divorces, for me, a four-year divorce. It was a hallelujah day the day that I got the phone call. I couldn’t have been happier. One would think he would be like, alright, good, because of all his goings-on. But no, it dragged out. There are just so many lessons to be learned and not everybody resonates with everybody. The business of divorce sucks. If we could separate the emotional side, which we talk about all the time, my divorce should have been done in 24 hours.

Gabrielle: Girl, me too.

T.H.: It’s a control thing. It’s a power trip. It’s a bunch of bullshit and a process that’s totally antiquated. I think Gabrielle’s purpose and our purpose and so many of us who we coin as real-life experts, we’re here to support. We’ve lived it, so we get it. This is why what you’re doing is resonating. The books are resonating because people identify with a feeling. Even if it wasn’t a Javier breakup, or a Daniel this, or my ex being whatever it’s the feeling that connects all of us and I think changes the way that people see their journey through all this. There is a light. There is an opportunity because she felt the way I did. And look at her now.  

Gabrielle: Yeah, I think the biggest part when people read it is that they don’t feel alone. I think so many of us feel like the world’s ending and no one else can understand what I’m going through. I don’t really think I did this intentionally, but because I was writing it as therapy for me, it turned out to be because of the circumstances, you feel like you’re reading this ridiculous wild Netflix show that your girlfriend is telling you over a glass of wine.

But at the same time, because you’re reading all of my realizations and my healing journey and all of the stuff that I’m working through, it resonates with you, and then you’re healing without really realizing it. So it is a self-help book. You just don’t realize it when you’re reading it.

T.H.: Which is even better. I’ve got a shelf of help books and they’ve never been opened. I just read the binder. Get Your Sh*t Together, Joint Custody with a Jerk, it all looks great in a pile. I haven’t really opened any of them.

Gabrielle: I love it.

Jessica: You have so many great nuggets. Obviously, the lessons woven throughout, as we keep saying are so relatable. But you know that everybody who’s been down the road of the journey of divorce is always like after the fact all of these things come to light. If you could narrow it down to one thing that you wish that you knew, for you to share with other people who are going through a divorce or have gotten divorced, is there one main thing like, I just wish I knew that beforehand? 

Gabrielle: Centered around divorce specifically?

Jessica: Yes.

Gabrielle: Yeah, there’s no shame in it.

I had so much fear because I had been unhappy for six to seven months in my marriage. In the back of my head, I was like, oh my god, is this not going to work? Are we going to end up getting divorced? I had even voiced my concerns to my mom. It just seemed so insane because I didn’t know about the cheating. I was like, who am I to go back on these vows, and we have to go to therapy, which we did. I was working my ass off. But I was like, god, we just had this big wedding and all of our friends and family were there. How do you backpedal from that without feeling guilty or ashamed, or like the bad guy? I was so thankful when he did something so drastic that made it so easy for me to walk away. It was almost like my ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card and I got a second chance because I would have stayed in that so much longer trying to make it work because I’d made the commitment and we took vows, so let’s go to therapy and make it work. I wish someone would have told me that being unhappy is enough and you don’t have to feel bad about that.

T.H.: We’re on the same page as you. Mine was definitely a ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card. I had four years of it was a slow burn. We were each married 13 years. We got engaged a month apart. We got married a month apart. We got divorced or separated a month apart because their stories were unraveling because they were doing bad things together behind our backs.

Gabrielle: Oh my god.

T.H.: We definitely get it. For Jessica, there was more sadness and grief. I never grieved my marriage. I just wanted to run for the hills. But I had babies so I stayed in because I was like, well, what about my kids? It’s so selfish of me. I mean, so what if I’m miserable? This is a family. This is what we’re doing. It was just eating me alive. The truth is, and we all know now, your kids and the people around you and your relationships are only going to be as good as you are. So if you aren’t in a good place, the other stuff’s just not going to work out.

Jessica: Not to mention it’s such a bullshit line of, it wasn’t in your case, but people say they want to stay together for the sake of kids. It’s like whatever, your kids are going to be so much more fucked up if they’re growing up in an environment where you’re showing a terrible relationship where parents hate each other. You’re better off having two separate homes where at least everybody can be happy and the kids can grow up in it in a better environment like that.

Gabrielle: I don’t think I can–I want to clarify that I don’t have kids, so it’s easy for me to be like, phew bye!

T.H.: It’s easy but hard. It’s still hard.

Gabrielle: But for everyone listening, I didn’t have to weigh that. I know a lot of women that do go through finding out about infidelity and stuff. It makes it a lot harder of a decision when you have kids to think about. But whenever my readers DM me and ask questions about this, I’m always like, are you happy? And if you’re not, your kids will be happier when you’re happy, so leave.

T.H.: Right.

Jessica: Praise the Lord like you are seriously preaching because we so believe in that.

T.H.: Wait, I have one more question for you, because, at the end of your Q&A with Jacqueline, she was encouraging people to ask different questions, like what’s on your bucket list and whatever.

So the question was what’s the most fucked up thing you’ve ever done?

Gabrielle: Oh my god. I mean…oh my god, there are so many things running through my brain right now.

T.H.: Okay, so let’s pick one that you’re–

Jessica: Comfortable sharing.

T.H.: –really proud of. [Laughs]

Gabrielle: Okay. Well, you’ll read about this in the sequel, in Ridiculous Misadventures, and this is one of the reasons why I struggled with that book so much. It was a lot harder for me to write the sequel than it was the first one because you meet my current boyfriend in that book, and you see the crazy roller coaster ride it took for us to end up where we’re at. I unintentionally had become like Javier. Granted, I had been very upfront, very honest, very blunt the entire time. But still, even with all that, and having good intentions, we had this kind of back and forth thing, and I really hurt him in a lot of ways a lot of different times. I held a lot of grief around that. It was hard to write about. It was something I wasn’t proud of. Would I say it’s the most fucked up thing I’ve ever done? No, it’s something that’s the most important thing that I faltered on. We’ve obviously been like, look, even he will sit here and say every single thing that happened in our journey had to happen that way for us to end up here. And I fully believe that, but it was definitely having that particular realization was like a bullet for me.

Jessica: Yeah.

T.H.: So that was a big growing time for you?

Gabrielle: Oh my god these books, if you read both the books back to back, you see me go from one human to an entirely different human. It’s very clear how the process went. 

T.H.: If you hadn’t gone to that psychic, do you think you would have still been writing? You talk about it so many times, ‘I was told I need to be writing. I need to be writing.’ Do you think you still would have put this all to paper?

Gabrielle: That’s what’s so interesting is that when I went to see that medium, she kept saying, I need you to be writing. You really need to be writing. I need you writing. I at the time was acting and directing. I’m like I don’t have a fucking idea for a screenplay, lady. There’s no inspiration. I don’t know what, okay. I didn’t realize until I was on my Europe trip writing page after page after page in this journal, I was like, oh my god, she said I need to be writing, and now I’m writing a frickin book. Okay. I literally still get DMs from my readers, because everything she said has come to fruition in my life, like, completely. At the time, she’s like, you’re about to have a rough six to seven rocky months. Then I met Javier, I was like, fuck you, lady. I’m really happy right now. Bye! No six to seven months Gabrielle, buckle up. The last thing she had said was I see you have a daughter by the time you’re 33. Half my readers are like, well, her, my current boyfriend has a daughter so that could have been what she was seeing. The other half of them are just waiting on bated breath to see if in the next 360 days I end up getting pregnant, which I don’t think is in the cards for me right now. I’m very career-focused. But yeah, everything that she told me has come true. It’s insane.

Jessica: That’s amazing.

T.H.: It’s crazy.

Jessica: Okay, I have one last question. The Self Love Cocktail you’re doing on Patreon, tell us about that. What is that about?

Gabrielle: So okay, oh, the one that’s on Patreon?

Jessica: Yes.

Gabrielle: Okay, so the Self Love Cocktail is written in the epilogue of Eat, Pray, FML, and it’s kind of like my discovery of how to love yourself because that’s something I was searching for on my journey. Everyone’s always like you need to learn how to love yourself first. Love yourself before you can be in a relationship. And I was like, okay, I’m ready to do that. Can anyone tell me how? And nobody could give me clear instructions. So the Self Love Cocktail is my answer to that. I didn’t figure it out fully until I came back from Europe, which is why it’s written in the epilogue. But I always tell people if they’re really in the shit of it to just read the epilogue first. It won’t ruin anything for the book, but you can start doing that practice before you go on this journey with me. But the Patreon subscription is the bonus content of my podcast, and we have different levels. One is just the access to the private Facebook group, which is like women that are connecting around the world and creating these lifelong friendships, which is just so frickin awesome. All the bonus content season three is all of the deleted chapters from the Ridiculous Misadventures. But we do a book club Zoom that is basically whoever’s in that tier of the subscription gets a Zoom link every Tuesday. We get on and I Zoom with you, and it’s kind of like a therapy hour and a half. Everybody talks and shares stuff and I lead them through things. It’s been really amazing to see these people come together in this community. They’re all on different paths on their healing journey but really support each other and are starting to connect and realize that they’re not alone in a really big way.

Jessica: Huge. I mean, the community aspect is so important especially when it comes to the whole– I would imagine you have a lot of people who haven’t been married and divorced, and just what you’re talking about is just so relevant anyway. But in particular, for people who have been married and divorced, there’s also after that shame comes that feeling of loneliness. Now you have maybe all of your friends, especially if you’re in your mid to late 30s or older, the majority of your friends may still be married and now it’s like okay, are you included in the group dinners? Are you included in all of the things that have been going on, that you’ve been a part of for all of these years? We are huge on like the girl gang and making sure that you have people around you that are your people.

Gabrielle: Yeah, totally. Yeah, and I have readers that got married young, stayed married their whole life, and they’re happy. I have readers that are single. I have readers that are divorced. Heartbreak and grief is universal, and the shitshow that life throws at us is universal. There’s going to be something for everyone to connect on in what I went through. Whether you’re male or female, or however you identify, it’s a universal theme that humans go through. I think when we can connect on those universal themes, it’s really powerful.

Jessica: A great place to end.

T.H.: So real-life experts resonate just as much as the people that you would have to go and pay in order to get stuff done. But really sharing stories good, bad, and ugly, and knowing you’re not alone and this is just out there for you, that’s awesome.

Gabrielle: I’m so happy to hear it.

Jessica: Gabrielle, thank you so, so much for taking the time for today. It’s such a great conversation. Like I said in the beginning, we’re huge fans and following you for a while. Everyone who’s listening, I was going to hold up the book, but people who are listening aren’t going to see me holding up the book. But Eat, Pray, FML, and even just her social media accounts, it’s so entertaining. And even when you are in that dark pit of despair of divorce, watching your stuff totally makes you laugh and realize keep things in perspective people. Nobody died of divorce. We can get through it.

T.H.: You’re right. It’s a hot minute in your life. That’s the truth. The span of your life, it’s a hot minute. It sucks, it’s a huge pain point, but it’s also a huge opportunity to make a change for yourself and try something new. Look, from what you were doing to what you’re doing now, I used to produce events across the country, and I’m doing this, Jessica used to be a producer, and so it’s a passion project. That’s what really makes it so rewarding.

Gabrielle: Yeah, I love that. I always say that it’s the shitty end to your beautiful new beginning, so go make it magical.

T.H.: That’s a perfect end. Thank you so much.

Jessica: I love that. Thank you again so much, Gabrielle.

Gabrielle: You’re so welcome, ladies. Thank you for having me.

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