FULL TRANSCRIPT – DIVORCE ETC… PODCAST WITH EXEXPERTS

0:02

Have you thought long and hard about what you need to find the right relationship post divorce?

Maybe create a list of your priorities and the characteristics you want and needed a new mate?

Well, have you considered the idea that not dating for a committed length of time can actually put you in the best position to find exactly what you’re looking for?

0:20

Think about it.

Cleansing yourself of men or women and digging deep can actually be the answer you didn’t even know existed.

And that’s exactly what we’re talking about in today’s episode of the Divorce Etcetera podcast.

We’re the ex experts Jessica and TH we help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life.

0:37

Let’s bring in today’s guests.

Hey guys, it’s TH.

So we have two guests today because we want two different perspectives on this whole idea of not dating.

And Kendra Kunov says it is a No Man Diet program.

0:55

And Luke Entrap does this type of coaching with a feminine cleanse or a relationship cleanse in a one-on-one program.

So we are getting a male and a female perspective, helping men and women equally, but a cleanse from dating.

1:11

I mean this this sounds great.

I mean, I probably should have done this a few times, but welcome to the show, Luke and Kendra.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having us.

Thank you guys for being here.

Yeah, it’s going to be back.

1:26

Actually, I I was on several episodes and this time I’m bringing my friend Kendra back to to talk to for a new topic here.

And we appreciate it.

And by the way, for everyone listening, if you haven’t heard Luke’s first episode with us, you have to go back and listen.

I totally used his strategies and techniques to have a conversation with my ex and it went so well.

1:45

And it was so the opposite of the way that I was approaching the situation.

His advice is gold, and we expect nothing less in this episode.

No pressure.

That that episode that episode is titled Harmonious Co Parenting.

So just look that up on xexperts.com.

2:04

So, Kendra, why is there a No Man Diet program?

Why?

Well, I would say a couple of things.

One is it.

It partly came out of my my own No Man Diet, which I didn’t do right after I was divorced.

2:19

I am also divorced, but it came more than after doing some dating post divorce and I had young children and I was in sort of an on again off again relationship and also had you know kind of like a love affair that then with also another uncommitted man.

2:35

And it really was then that decision of like, you know what?

Right now it’s me and me for a period of time.

And when I look back at all of the various transformational work and self development that I’ve done in my life, I would say that was one of the most transformational periods of my entire life.

2:55

And I oh, I mean people say this all the time.

It’s like a cliche thing to say that our relationship with our self is the most important relationship.

But I think because it has that cliche, it’s almost like we hear it and we just, it just kind of like water off a duck’s back.

3:13

We’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that’s all fine and good.

Like I’ll work on.

I like, I want, I want to get in relationship with me.

Like after I’m in a relationship or you know, like after I get successful or after I, you know that that sounds like a nice icing.

But really, it’s like, that’s been the meat and potatoes and green beans and kale and, I don’t know, green smoothies of my life.

3:34

Yeah, it’s been the, I mean, it’s been the chocolate chip cookies and the whole meal really of, I would say, everything that came since then.

When it comes to like doing the work like you say, I mean, we hear this kind of stuff all the time.

Clearly everyone has different work to do.

But like what do you mean when I’m going to ask actually both of you, but Kendra, since we’re on you already, like what do you, what are you saying to people in terms of having to do the work?

4:00

Because I think that also, and I think even for myself to some extent, there was a period of time where I was like, no, I’m good.

Like I am feeling good about myself.

And like now in retrospect, I look back and I’m like, I’m in such a better place now than I was then for a variety of circumstances.

4:16

But like, I feel like sometimes people think they understand and they don’t.

So how do you help them understand?

Well, This is why I actually think that something like a feminine cleanse or a No Man Diet is such a great access point.

Because if you just ask somebody you know, are you good with your life?

4:32

Or like, do you love yourself?

Maybe like, yeah, I think I’m good.

But if you say, like, do you have the kind of love you want to have in your life?

And people are like, well, you know, maybe they’re serial monogamists or they’re in and out of relationship, or they’ll say that they’re single, but they’re never really not date.

You know, we’ll be like, well, and and so there’s this access point for people to enter into something.

4:53

And then, I mean, the way that I structure the No Man Diet is ultimately like, it has a framework that really walks all the women through it, But the way that they can then address it actually is, is wherever they’re at in their life.

5:09

So it’s not, it addresses that piece you’re saying, which is different people need different work at different times.

But there’s a way.

And it’s actually the reason I do it in community as well, is there’s something so powerful about a group of women coming together and being on that kind of journey together that’s so transformational.

5:26

So, So I think that speaks to what you’re saying of like, I feel like I’m good, but am I actually in the kind of relationship?

Do I feel the way I want to feel in relationship?

That’s the place that that people will go like, oh, there’s something I’m wanting here.

And again, they might kind of push back that, oh, well, it’s not about doing work on myself.

5:45

It’s about the kind of person I’m with or it’s kind of, you know, So if I can get them in the door, I would say the thing that I hear most often is like, oh, the no man, diet’s not really about men.

And I’m like, yeah, I know, but if I told you that, you might not do.

It, Luke.

6:01

What about you?

When you’re working with people?

Like who?

Same thing for guys.

Yeah.

I think there’s a couple of different areas, right.

So often times men come to me after a breakup or during a a big divorce and they they, you know, they need support around that.

6:16

And there’s the kind of I would call it more immediate grieving and processing of the loss of the relationship that needs to happen, right.

And so often we will want to escape that and turn away from that.

So and and that often looks like finding the next relationship, right.

6:34

So that’s kind of, at the surface level is like giving us time to metabolize and process and feel and make sense of and make meaning about a really important lost relationship.

That’s at the surface.

There’s a layer beneath that, which is our relationship, our patterns, our habits.

6:54

How do we show up repeatedly in ways that don’t actually get us the love that we want?

And that isn’t necessarily about the relationship that just ended, but our entire relationship.

In this case, I work with men.

You know, their relationship to women, their relationship to the feminine.

7:10

So once we kind of metabolize the relationship, that’s lost, It opens up this deeper inquiry when we’re not just finding the next thing, the next relationship, the next woman, to pull us out of that process of really examining the habitual patterns, the shadows, the unconscious ways in which we’re selecting a partner.

7:31

And it forces us to really be with ourselves.

And once we’ve done that work, then we actually can there’s, you know, we have a much more of a liberated heart where we can actually be in an exchange of love in a more meaningful, in a deeper way.

7:47

So it’s not just about metabolizing a divorce.

It’s also about really looking at these deeper patterns.

I would say that’s the the thing that a question that I get also is like, well, shouldn’t I do this work in relationship?

8:04

If I’m, it’s kind of what Luke’s talking about, right?

If what I’m looking at are my relational patterns, shouldn’t I do this work in relationship?

And if somebody’s in a relationship that they’re basically happy with, I’m like, great, Yes, like we can work on that too.

I do that in other ways.

8:19

You know, Luke does that in other ways.

But if you’re not happy or you’re just out of a relationship or a breakup, then it often really is.

What Luke said is that taking that time clears the space of unconscious habits we don’t even know we have.

8:36

Like the way that water will run the same way because there’s just a groove there.

And when we really clear it all, we go, oh, I didn’t even know I had that pattern, and I couldn’t have seen it if I didn’t take this kind of space.

I I think that I feel like I spoke to Luke about it, but I could be wrong.

8:55

I felt like I needed to be dating to figure out all of the like to even realize I had issues.

Like, I have stuff to work on, but I didn’t realize it until I was dating.

And I I was like, holding a guy’s hand.

9:13

It was the first day he went to hold my hand across the street, and I hold my hand away.

And I was like, I don’t need you to hold my hand.

I just like, back off.

And then the next second I was like, holy shit, I I think I have issues.

9:30

And not only issues but I think that I’m not ready to date.

So it was like I there’s something wrong here and I shouldn’t be doing this.

I never would have realized it to come to either one of you if I hadn’t been on a date or been dating to recognize it.

9:50

And and also Hindsight’s 2020.

I mean do you really get somebody fresh out of a relationship?

Because I also feel for me.

I just wanted someone to tell me I was pretty.

And then when they told me I was pretty, then I go to the next guy who said it was pretty and he took me to dinner.

10:05

So then I got dinner and pretty and then kind of growing from there.

But how do you know that That’s like, there’s so much more to a relationship than being told you’re pretty and having somebody buy you dinner?

So how do you even get people to come to you?

10:22

How do they no to come to you?

That’s what I want you to share with everyone as relationship and life coaches.

What are the signs that they see in themselves, that they’re like, I need to call Kendra, I need to call Luke?

In in Shadow Work we have this phrase three PS.

10:39

It’s persistently painful patterns, right, that there is a, there’s an ongoing dynamic that is not getting me the result I want in this case in my relationship to, you know, potential partners.

And that’s often the case is, you know, folks have tried something repeatedly and there’s just, they keep fine, you know, from for myself, let me just speak for myself.

11:03

When I went through this I spent after my divorce, I had the same thing.

I was out there kind of dating and it was kind of superficial and not really getting what I wanted out of it.

It was fine.

There was like some validation in that and and then I just realized like I had some unresolved feelings about my divorce and I just noticed like I needed.

11:22

I wanted and needed something different.

So I decided to take six months And what this looks like is no a dating.

But it goes deeper than that.

It’s no flirting, no engaging for me with women in a way that was like hooking them into my my, you know, field.

11:42

My flirt yes my charms, right.

Yes.

Just not playing the game and and walking around as if I in some ways just had a veil over me.

Like being kind and polite but not not seducing or flirting and and and that what that did is it really had me really examining my own heart and my own mind and my own feelings.

12:07

And I spent a tremendous amount of time doing two things.

Walking alone, excuse me.

Walking alone in the forest or in nature or, you know, by the ocean.

So I’m getting some nourishment from the earth that in a way that feels really good, that’s not through the form of a woman.

12:24

And I spent a lot of time with men in my life that I trust and joined a men’s group and went on backpacking trips and surrounded myself by dudes that could both support and challenge me, challenge me around my habitual patterns and support me and help me clarify what you know what I really wanted from from a relationship.

12:46

So that that was my journey around it and you know so Kendra I’m curious about your your.

Response in this, both personally and what I see, I mean the beauty of running a group program is at this point, I’ve had hundreds of women go through and I have had women in their 20s all the way to women in their 70s.

13:08

And women who’ve been married, who’ve never been married, who’ve been out of like I’ve had women who come in who one of their fears is I’ve been out of relationship so long, I I don’t think what I need is a no man diet.

I think I need to be dating.

And often there’s there’s like an unconscious amount of energy that’s spent imagining we could be dating or thinking we’re not dating, not by our own choice.

13:33

And so there’s something that happens when we go like, you know what I choose to put this particular container of no dating, no sex.

Like Luke said, no flirting.

I mean, there’s all I have each woman create her own container, and I have certain recommendations that I strongly, strongly recommend.

13:49

But ultimately, each woman really creates her own container.

And some of that is looking at the big broader things like no dating, no sex.

And some of it is like oh that one Co worker that when I walk by they look at me and I just feel like I’m pretty like you said TH you know like oh I got my I got my like little juice and I’m OK and I exist in the you know and like like that like OK I’m just not going to do that.

14:13

I’m going to find out not as a punishment or some kind of asceticism, but I actually want to find out who am I when I’m not seeking that external validation.

And so I think what your, what your original question was is really valid, which is it might not always be the immediate thing it can be.

14:35

Especially, I mean if you’ve had a really painful breakup, a really painful divorce, it’s possible that the best thing that you could do is step into a container like this, especially honestly, it doesn’t have to be me and Luke, you know, but if it’s held by somebody.

So I I talked to a lot of people who try to do this on their own, not knowing actually how challenging it’s going to be.

14:56

They think like how hard could not dating be?

I haven’t been dating and you know, eight years, something I’m like oh, it’s really hard and it will bring up like your deepest stuff.

And so that’s why I don’t offer it as, you know, a self LED program in this way because I’ve just seen over and over if you can find, you know, somebody who can hold you through it.

15:14

And you know, Luke found his own community.

I encourage women in the No Man Diet to also have their own community, even though there’s also the women who are going through it because you’re going to need support.

So if it’s been really painful, it might be right after a breakup.

And like you were saying TH, it’s like you might need to go out and like partly have some fun and you might need to sort of see, oh, I thought it was about them.

15:40

And I’m watching these ways that it’s about me and I don’t know how to shift that.

I we’re going to take a quick break.

But then I want to ask you guys, well, and also to recognize the importance of a group, because you see you’re not alone.

15:55

You can hear you’re not alone.

If people can tell you that over and over.

But to see you’re not alone, there’s nothing wrong with you.

You’re not the only one doing this there.

You know you’re not scorned and you’re not trash and you know any of those things.

16:10

So let’s dig into that.

But first, when Jessica and I were divorcing our exes, we hope someone would take us by the hand to make sure we didn’t make any mistakes with our kids.

Dealing with our ex and with our friends.

Dating, not dating, You name it, you’re in luck.

16:26

Just like building ex experts for you, we also created a divorce rule book.

We share what we wish we knew back then, so you don’t make the same mistakes we did.

If you want your copy, all you have to do is visit exexperts.com and it’s right there for you.

16:42

You don’t know what you don’t know, but the ex experts do.

So let’s talk about community and and and feeling like before.

Go ahead.

Before we even ask that, I just want to know, like you guys are both talking about the importance of taking the time to do something like this so that you can recognize what your own.

17:05

I don’t want to, you know, be down on people like your own sort of negative patterns, you know, things like that, things that aren’t serving you in relationships.

I’m just curious how the concept of not dating and living my life, not flirting, whatever, How is that going to show me patterns I’ve had in past relationships that don’t work?

17:27

I I I’m just, I’m having trouble putting those two pieces together because Kendra, I sort of get what the women have said to you like, well then shouldn’t I be doing that while I’m in a relationship?

How is me not being in a relationship going to help me reconcile bad patterns?

Well I’ll say a couple things.

17:44

I’ll just jump in and say a couple things.

And one is you know we can’t help but be in some we’re interacting with people even as Luke saying he goes out you know kind of covered in a veil or you know when I did my Oh no man diet or or women notice this and they’re I mean this women ask me this all the time they’re like can I still talk to men.

18:02

I’m like you’re not going to a monetary you know.

So the truth is, we’re we are still so much in interaction that I find that women definitely still see the ways that they’re being hooked into patterns, even if they’re not dating, seeking in an intimate, romantic or sexual relationship.

18:23

And they also see the parts of themselves that like compulsively want to do certain things to hook people or to.

So it it it comes up anyway.

And this isn’t exactly your question, but it feels really relevant, which is I I mean I want to say here for everybody is that I’m actually now in partnership with the man that I was dating before I went on my No Man diet.

18:48

That does not always happen.

But when we so we had this whole time apart when we actually got back together and it took a little while.

I watched myself start to do my old patterns.

19:05

So I I tell every woman in the no man die at this because I’m like, this might happen.

This isn’t about fixing you.

You’re not broken.

It doesn’t mean these things will never arise.

Some of them might be just gone for good.

That’s totally possible.

But I watched myself.

I was like, oh, that’s that thing And and I had developed.

19:29

I mean, I just want to.

It’s like some sort of inner fortitude.

There was just something in me that was like, I know I’m OK without this relationship and I know I’m OK without a relationship.

And so I am actually capable of choosing out of this dynamic, even if it means the end of the relationship.

19:47

Like, I remember consciously thinking to myself, if if us having sex means this, then I’m going to give up the sex, no matter how good it is.

And thankfully, it didn’t mean that.

But it was.

I was able to actually see my patterns more clearly.

20:02

And I there was something in me that was like, I know I’m not gonna die if this relationship ends, ’cause I just did that.

I just went through like, what felt like a death process.

And so that’s part of my response to that.

And Luke, what about you?

How are you teaching guys that?

Yeah, I think when we can really be with ourself in a very deep way and not fill the hole, fill the the emptiness that we feel through loss and divorce and breakup, we’re able to select a partner in a much clearer way.

20:34

For me, I was able.

I was just really confronted during the the six months that I took, you know, I was really confronted with my pattern of selecting emotionally unavailable, fairly controlling, fairly shut down women When I said I want, I want a woman that I just feel a lot freer, love with more where there’s more energy in exchange with us.

20:57

I consistently found myself with the exact opposite.

And so for me, that was my persistently painful pattern that I had.

I really sat with what I needed, time outside of relationship to really look at what was the payoff I was getting for being attracted to controlling, emotionally unavailable women.

21:17

And it was protection.

That’s what I got to is like my own vulnerability of being in relationship.

I was able to really be with that.

So there’s a piece around selection and like finding for me, finding a partner that really I get really clear on what I want and I get really clear on how I would work against myself unconsciously.

21:39

So that’s one piece of it.

There’s another thing that I did, and I don’t do this in every, every relationship cleanse that I take my clients through.

But there is a peace.

There’s an opportunity to reconcile with those partners and lovers of the past where I have some sort of unfinished unresolved business with whether I.

22:04

For men it’s often like who are the women that you hurt that you caused harm to, that you were unkind to that there’s there’s something that you did that was a a betrayal or or out of your own unconsciousness you left a mark and you know kind of borrows from the from the 12 step program of the fourth step of making amends right, that I went back and I kind of cataloged like here are several women in my past that I was not nice to or left awake or I had something unfinished with them.

22:37

And as much as I could I reached back out to them and apologized and made amends best I could with no expectation.

I wasn’t trying to date them.

It was just a way of like honoring the relationship that I had had and really thanking them for the gift that it was for me.

22:54

And and doing my best to to make amends there.

And that I have to tell you as part of this six months was incredibly freeing for me.

To then feel like I wasn’t carrying around all this guilt and shame and resentment and all the things that cloud one’s vision when they’re looking at finding a partner or just being still with oneself.

23:15

So once I was able to do that, you know, I just, I found myself in a much more grounded and settled place.

I mean, how great would that be, Jessica, if we got calls like that well from the guys?

That we’ve dated.

Fucking stop ringing I.

23:31

Mean whatever, I I really This is so amazing and I remember why I was so impressed with you from the very first time that we spoke.

I love the way both of you have your perspectives on relationships and really bringing it back to who we are.

23:49

And I I’m curious, ’cause I always felt like I was attracting people based on where I was in my own growth.

So when you were saying, you know, you’re looking, you’re you’re attracted to these controlling women and whatever, I mean, were those, I don’t want to put it on you.

24:06

I’ll just come back to me.

So I just felt like I needed so much to fill that void.

But I was not anywhere near where I am now.

And I attracted men who had so much more to learn and grow, but they met me where I was at that time.

24:25

So I So my question is, are we attracted to people who are kind of where we’re at also?

So if we’re not in a good place, do we attract other people who are not in a good place?

Are they easier for us to get along with?

24:41

I’m curious about that.

That’s my own.

Flash and I’m not a.

Relationship Coach.

Hendry, you should take this one, yeah?

I’ll say yes and no.

So I mean I think there is some truth to that.

The the, the tricky part that I see with that and again I work more with women, so I hear it more from women.

24:58

But this may be very well for men too is that I hear like, well I attracted them.

So I guess I have something to learn here and I’m like maybe the thing you have to learn is how to walk away or how to say no like that.

I think about this in terms of how do we actually change our karma, you know, whatever we want to call karma or our path or you know, what does that actually mean?

25:17

It means we choose differently.

And so to me, you know, there are, I think there is some truth to that.

We attract where we’re at.

But I also think that included in that is actually we can change that in any moment.

And what that requires is responding differently.

25:34

And sometimes we have that capacity and sometimes we don’t.

And it a little bit goes to something that came up earlier, which is that I’ll notice that women on the No Man Diet, maybe they have a primary habit of sort of seeking, you know, fulfilment from one man.

25:51

And so then we remove that and then they go to what’s a secondary habit which is complete isolation and and they’ll say and then there’s there can be.

And This is why, again, if people do it alone, they can sort of ping pong like Oh well, I don’t want to, I don’t want to isolate.

That seems harming to myself.

26:06

So I guess I’ll date again, you know, rather than, oh, there’s actually a completely other option that doesn’t require you finding a man or getting all your validation from a man, but doesn’t mean you need to self isolate, you know, or, oh, I’m attracting people who are, you know, judgmental or narcissistic or unkind in these ways.

26:25

Well, that doesn’t mean I have to stay with them or date them or.

It’s just showing me that I’m at a low level.

It means there is some other way that I can respond, which might be boundaries.

It might be walking away.

It might be.

I mean, you brought generosity, right?

You know, like, and what does that actually mean?

26:41

Right.

It doesn’t mean being a doormat.

But how do we truly change our response?

Actually, I think changes the people around us.

You just have to be able to see it though.

That’s what’s key like.

Which is why it’s so great to have community you.

Know.

Talk to us about that.

26:59

Well, just what Teach was asking before like the, you know, to talk about the importance of doing it in a community and by the way, like nothing.

I mean, I I don’t want to make it like, well, Luke, you know, because you’re not it’s not how you’re doing yours.

But I also think that that it, it seems to be a stereotypically a better fit for women to be doing that kind of thing in a group versus guys.

27:20

So I totally understand why you don’t, but but Kendra, talk to us a little bit about that, like the importance of the community and these types of groups going through it together.

Well, I think it was said before.

You know, part of it is just seeing.

You’re not alone.

And so I and then and then sometimes we can’t see, right.

27:36

We’re in that and we’re like, I guess this means and someone else is like actually it could mean all these other things, you know, or it could mean nothing.

Or it could.

I mean the community gets to support each other to some extent too.

But I’ll.

I’m in there offering things and and people will have set their container.

27:55

They’re not going to be in contact with someone or they’re not, you know, and then that person will send them a text.

I mean, you probably see this all the time, Luke, right?

It’s like someone goes on a no man diet and no woman diet, a cleanse suddenly, like all the, you know, and they’re like, what is going on?

They get interest from past exes.

28:11

They get people they were interested in that never expressed interest suddenly coming.

I mean, people just come out of the woodwork and they’re like, what is this?

Maybe it means I’m supposed to be dating and it’s like or maybe it means that you drawing your attention inward in this way is magnetic.

Right.

And and so that you’re not alone or having people, sometimes people set up kind of accountability, You know, this is what I’ll do instead of texting back is I’ll reach out to the community or I set up people that I can text back instead instead of the ex that reached out.

28:46

Yeah.

And like, I mean, I imagine that you set men on this too as well.

Luke is is that they they can have men around them.

It may not be a group program, but that ensure that you set up structures for community.

Yeah, that’s right.

Yeah.

So, So a key ingredient I think, for any man going through a relationship cleanse is to have a really good group of men around him.

29:08

And while they may not be going through the program with him that he has a place to kind of be challenged, be supported metabolized process that you know, that he’s got a good group of dudes around him and a guide, a coach.

Right.

29:23

So he’s not doing it alone.

This was a great gift to me when I found a coach that took me through this because I would call him in a moment of like pain or anguish or longing and he would just, you know, he’d help me work through that.

You know, there was this great poet that wrote about men’s psychology.

29:41

His name was Robert Bly, and he talked about the difference between masculine and feminine.

And he said the feminine in each of us feels most connected by sitting in a circle and sharing how we feel.

The masculine in each of us feels most connected by walking side by side.

29:59

And he said in the forest.

And he also said maybe not even speaking right.

So there’s a right.

So there’s a way in which, you know, a lot of what I do with the men is like get them, you know, I walk side by side with them in the forest, sometimes quite literally, but get them kind of moving through the world in a way where they can, they can get quiet enough to be with themselves, right, and then have a place, a circle or a community that they can plug into.

30:27

But it is.

I think it is a little different where the primary place of processing for men, at least for me, it’s it’s often like on my yoga mat by myself or out in the forest or at the ocean.

You know it’s it’s that’s where I really kind of crack open and have the deepest insights and I’ve had some of the greatest breakthroughs and I think that’s the case for a lot of men.

30:46

We just, you know the the pace is a little different and the and the way that it happens is a little different.

I mean, I think this is so interesting.

Don’t you just like Jess?

Would you ever do this?

Did I ever do it or would I ever do it?

Would you ever do this?

31:02

I know you haven’t.

I feel I haven’t.

Not for six months, not for six months, but for two months.

Recently I my my purpose wasn’t like you were trying.

To dating apps.

I that I was not on dating apps.

For two months.

31:18

No, from the end of December until begin.

Like second week of February almost, yeah.

But that and that was a conscious choice of mine.

But I felt like I was in a good place and and I that was just it just wasn’t something that I that I felt like I needed.

31:38

What I was going to ask is like the people who are going into it who are thinking like, OK, it’s a six month sobriety dating sobriety program.

So when they’re done are do you find that they’re like immediately out dating or do you find that people are like now taking their time to kind of get back into the dating pool?

32:00

I’m curious what it looks like on the other side.

Yeah, it’s a great question.

And just to be clear, it’s, I don’t think it’s necessarily six months for everyone.

It really depends.

It’s situational.

It can be a month, can be 3 months.

Sometimes people start with three months and they’re like, I feel like I’m just getting started.

32:16

I’m gonna do another three months, right?

For me, I knew I was coming out of a long, you know, a long marriage and just I just knew I needed to just surrender myself to it.

And I did six months.

And then at the end, I mean Kendra has, I know you have some really great things about how you end this.

32:34

I will say it’s very common that you know people will be reticent and hesitant to end it even after six months because there’s there’s it’s just such a rich and fertile time of life to to just love on oneself so deeply and to get so to just step out of the patterns right so and I I maybe you see this kinder but I see it quite often where men will extend it or just be very hesitant to dive back in and but yeah I’d love to hear Kendra maybe your thoughts about how you coach people through the ending.

33:09

Well, it was partly so.

I also did six months and but I came to that because when I thought about it, I originally set three months and I remember inside my I was just like, yeah, I could totally do that.

And then I sort of caught myself like a week later, cause a little like being on a cleanse and going to the grocery store and buying like, chocolate chip cookie ingredients.

33:31

I knew exactly where I was gonna be in three months.

I knew who was gonna be there.

I knew who I should sleep with.

Like it.

I was just like, oh fuck I.

Was getting yourself through it.

Totally.

I had AII was like, oh that it because I could do that.

33:47

I recognized for myself also it wasn’t long enough.

I was actually driving.

I remember I was driving because there was this.

So it ended up being six months.

But there was this moment where I where I had that realization.

I thought it needs to be a year.

And it felt like this wave of like every possible partner I could ever have would be gone.

34:09

Which sounds sort of horrible, but it was kind of like I felt like I needed that.

Like I needed The Desolation to go in.

And then it was about two weeks later, I had a conversation with someone and I I realized like, oh, at six, like actually what’s correct is 6 months.

34:24

But I kind of had to go through that process of finding what was correct.

And I actually, I lead women through that.

When they create their container, the program itself is 3 months.

But when they come in and I have them say very clearly what is the start and what is the end, right.

34:39

So that it’s not vague like, oh, oh, just the the program.

I’m like, great, So what is the start date and what is the end date?

Because we get we’re all squirrely around these kind of things.

Like, I mean I did at the end I told I almost broke my whole container like 2 weeks before the end of six months.

34:55

So.

So I have them just create really clearly And then I’ll say I I see the same thing that Luke said, which is many women extend past that time.

So I have a whole process.

I mean basically they’re getting like weekly content that guides them through each step of the process.

35:13

And so when we get to module, so there’s 12 modules.

So it’s probably around like module 10/9 or 10 where I specifically start talking about endings.

And one of the things that we actually do is process, how do we do endings and completions and do reflection on that.

35:31

And they use the No Man Diet as kind of a way to look at like, oh, you know, I’m still here physically, but I ejected emotionally.

Like, I just figured like, I was basically done and who cares and what is it really to complete, fully devoted.

And then there’s a whole process we do, you know, the entire setup process.

35:47

I refer them back to that and I say like do that again now for how you’re completing.

So take your own time and go what are the next three months look like for you or what are the next one months.

You know set a period of time and say my post no man diet, what is the container?

Because even saying I want no container is a chosen container rather than And then the reason I do it actually is how I ended is I suddenly realized like I was on a no man diet and then I was off and I was like wait what do I who do I I don’t know what I’m doing anymore.

36:17

I had rules and now I have no rules.

And it’s been 4 days.

And why haven’t I had sex yet?

And like, and I was like, oh, so I learned a lot by my process of doing that.

And to be able to set the women up, Well, to choose, you know, do they just want to go crazy dating?

36:33

Do they want to have some structure around their rules for themselves about how they start dating?

Like, how do they really want to treat this?

Like.

Be really.

Conscientious about your intentions.

Right, right.

Very intentional, but I I would see that I wouldn’t want to leave because I don’t want to leave my new friends.

36:52

And you’ve created a safe space for me where I’m heard and not judged.

And like you guys, that container is like a really happy good place.

So who would want to leave it?

It’s just like, OK, your divorce is granted, go on with the rest of your life and everyone’s like, holy shit, what do you mean what do I do?

37:13

I can’t call my lawyer tomorrow and I can’t call Kendra and I can’t call Luke.

And what about all my friends who I go hiking with?

And you know what happens to that Community is everything.

And and honestly, that’s why we created ex experts, because we are transparent about everything that we talk about and people want to know they’re not alone.

37:35

And if you choose not to date, it’s.

OK.

Because people come up to you.

I remember when I first separated.

They’re like, oh, you’re so pretty.

Don’t worry, you’ll find a good man.

And I was like why?

Why does it have to be that?

What I want right now, and it’s probably not so good for me either, but that’s what people do.

37:54

They’re like, oh, how you doing?

Can I set you up?

You know, you’re judged based on being with someone and if you’re not dating or TH she’s not dating, she’s all alone.

You know, it’s it sucks.

And so you guys have created a really great environment where those voices and negative energy isn’t going to hurt them because they’re safe.

38:17

They know they’re not alone.

Well, you’re allowed to keep in touch with your friends that you just you’re allowed to keep in touch with the friends you’ve made in the program.

No, I know.

But I’m just saying, like, knowing that you can show up every week like they’re looking forward to every Wednesday at 7, you know?

38:33

And now like, what am I doing Wednesday at 7:00?

Well, where am I going?

I I actually, I think, I do think to Jessica’s point and my guess is that this is true with Luca.

Like the people, both the people that he was in men’s group with when he did his are probably still really important to him.

You know, I mean the the female friendships that I developed were were absolutely bedrock and they’ve continued to be in.

38:55

I mean, there are women in the No Man Diet who still meet with like sometimes they create their own little cohorts.

Amazing.

And literally still meet on a weekly or bimonthly basis years later.

But that’s part.

Also, I think of the process like one of the modules in the No Man Diet is keep dating you.

39:16

Right.

And it’s so much like, oh, then I’m off this And now my attention should just go out there or or now I don’t know what I’m doing.

Or now I don’t have my girlfriends at 7:00 on Wednesday.

And it’s like if if you love that, keep doing that.

And the person that you want to be with, if there’s a person that you want to be with like that, that is going to fit into your life in that relationship, right?

39:40

Everybody, I hope you all listen to that.

And if you didn’t rewind and listen again because I would be freaking out.

And So what I ultimately want to do is thank both of you for creating these safe spaces for people.

You just have to show up.

39:56

That’s it.

They will guide you and hold your hand and you’ll be accountable to a group of other women and men who are going to keep you accountable and and you show up as you are.

And so I really thank you for creating both of these.

40:13

Environments and opportunities for people to really discover themselves and then everything else is gravy.

I I know that now.

I didn’t go through a cleanse, but I went through a lot of shit that I feel like was a cleanse in a different way, not as healthy.

40:29

So I I I applaud both of you and thank you for doing this.

I also think it’s great for people to know that there are programs out there, whether it’s the one-on-one coaching with Luke or or your program Kendra, where it’s like there’s a structure around it.

You know, like you said in the we started in the beginning, it’s like everyone’s always talking about doing the work, doing the work, doing the work and get a therapist.

40:48

And I think a lot of people don’t necessarily know what that means or don’t know how to get it going.

And and there’s so much advice out there post divorce about how to find the right relationship and and you know how to manifest your new partner and things like that.

41:04

So I think it’s really great that there’s a totally different option out there that’s solely focused on the idea of focusing on yourself so that you can then focus on someone else.

So it is really wonderful.

So thank you both and for everyone listening, if you’ve enjoyed this episode of the Divorce Etcetera podcast with the ex experts today, then please help a girl out.

41:25

You can take a moment to subscribe, rate and review because that actually helps us to help others going through divorce.

Find us and the resources that they need.

For more about Luke and Kendra and how they can help you, check out the show notes and of course share this episode with anyone you know who can benefit from listening.

41:43

Have a great day.