FULL TRANSCRIPT – DIVORCE ETC… PODCAST

WARNINGS ABOUT DATING AFTER DIVORCE

T.H.: Have you guys heard stories from divorced friends about the perils of dating after divorce? Eventually, you have to get back out there. But how do you even know if the people you meet are actually even single, or if they’re even divorced, if they’re married? Or what is their status? Are they in a relationship? What the hell? You know, Jess and I have our own crazy dating stories, not only about ourselves, but certainly our exes. This is exactly what we’re talking about in today’s episode of Divorce etc… podcast. We’re the exEXPERTS, T.H. and Jessica, though I’m flying solo today. We help you navigate your divorce and successfully move on with your life. Today’s guest is one of our favorites. She’s beautiful inside and out. Make sure to follow us on all social media at exEXPERTS, and go to www.exexperts.com for free divorce related resources. Let’s get on with the show. So, dun-da-da… our guest is Carmindy, the founder of Carmindy Beauty. We have interviewed Carmindy before about her own personal story with divorce, and she really shares what she wished she knew. She’s back, telling us another story of what she wished she knew when it comes to dating. Welcome to Divorce etc…

Carmindy: I’m so happy to be back. I love you guys so much.

T.H.: And we love, love, love you. But we also love that you are always willing to come forward and say, “I’ve got something that your audience needs to hear.”

Carmindy: Yes.

T.H.: Like putting out breaking news, public service announcement here now.

Carmindy: Yes.

T.H.: So, Carmindy sent me a note. She said, “I need to talk about this on your show.” Why don’t you just introduce yourself quickly to anybody who wouldn’t know you? Then let’s get into this topic.

Carmindy: Sure. My name is Carmindy. I am a professional makeup artist and beauty expert, author, speaker on women’s empowerment. I just founded Carmindy Beauty that is sold on Amazon. Woo-hoo!

T.H.: Yay! So proud of you.

Carmindy: Thank you. It’s been a labor of true love and hard work, but it feels good. I love your podcast, and I have recommended it to so many people going through divorce, or about to, or thinking about it, or in the aftermath of it. But being divorced as long as I have and not being married again and trying to get back out into the dating scene is something we never discussed.

T.H.: No.

Carmindy: Something happened recently, where I texted you, and I was like, “We got to talk about this.”

T.H.: Yes. I’m nervous to talk about it, but I’m curious too. I mean, you just have to tell the story.

Carmindy: Yeah, I’m going to tell the story. First off, I was divorced many years ago. I quickly started dating without, I think, doing the work and taking the time to be on my own, to work out how I could feel complete without a partner. That led me into making bad decisions. Because a lot of us, I think when we start dating, start thinking, oh, time is limited. The first chapter of my life is gone. I have to hurry up. There’s not a lot of fish out in the sea and this age gap. All of those will lead to bad choices. I thought in my head that I had spent enough time being alone, and done the work, and did the meditations, and read all the books, and did all the things, and did all the forgiveness, that I was ready to start dating. Now, I’m not a huge fan personally of online dating because I’m very much of an energy person. I like to meet people right away and see their energy. I’m very intuitive that way. So I rely on setups. I had been set up on a few dates, and they were lovely. It just didn’t work out. It wasn’t for me, it wasn’t for him. But this date was a setup that happened right before Christmas. This woman said, “Oh, I know this great guy. He’s your age. He’s got three grown children. He’s divorced. He’s a really great guy. Yada, yada, yada.” I trusted her. I didn’t know her well, but I figured, oh, this all sounds good. I did a little research on him online. I didn’t want to do too deep of a dive. He was very persistent. And so he seemed so great on paper. He’s like, “Oh, here’s five magical dates we can go on. Pick one.” He really put the effort in—

T.H.: Exciting.

Carmindy: —just a fun, adventurous type of person. I said, “Great. I’m going to pick that one.” And it was this kind of Christmas show with dinner. It was lovely. When we met, the first question I asked him is, “How long have you been divorced, officially divorced?” He said, “For about three years.” I was like, “Okay, all right.” We talked about his children, and he goes, he said to me, “I’m an open book. You can ask me anything.” I said, “Okay, great.” So I was asking him questions, but in between the answers, I kept getting these grand sweeping things. Now, granted, this is our first date. He’s saying things like, “I want to fly you to Vegas. I want to fly us to the Bahamas.” It was flying me, assuming like I’m just going to jump on this, flying all over the place with this guy. Well, I kept saying, “Well, you know, I’d like to see where you live,” and “We should go out on a few dates first.” He says, “Well, I live on a little island in South Carolina. You should see this house. It’s such a beautiful house, and the sunrises on one side and sets on the other.” He’s waxing poetic. But whenever I’d say, “Oh, I’d like to visit,” he would pick another random place somewhere else. It started to make me think something’s weird. My intuition was—

T.H.: Your gut.

Carmindy: —something is not right here. He was in town visiting, and so the next day, we had another date. We met and we were having lunch, and again, I got that weird red flag. I asked him again how long he had been divorced. We talked about it and talked about the kids. Again, he immediately started talking about all these grand adventures we were going to have. So, again, that weird feeling of huh… I came home that night and I decided to do some deep diving of my own. Why is this intuition talking to me like this? What is the flag here?

T.H.: What’s off here?

Carmindy: What’s off? He looks good on paper. He’s saying he’s an open book. He’s saying he’s divorced. I even reached out to a few friends. They’re like, “Oh, you’re just trying to find things to look for,” or “You were set up by somebody. Why would somebody set you up with a bad person?” And I said, “I don’t know. Something’s telling me.” Because as we get older, and as we’ve gone through divorces and issues, trust your gut. Trust your intuition.

T.H.: 100%.

Carmindy: Sure enough, I started doing a deep dive, a deep dive on social media. You can’t hide from social media. I mean, I went through his kids, his business. I mean, I went down a rabbit hole. Sure enough, I found out—by finding out his wife on there—he’s still married, and she’s living in that house that he was waxing poetic about. He lied to me.

T.H.: So you don’t think he’s divorced, but they still share the same house?

Carmindy: The point is—

T.H.: He lied.

Carmindy: —it didn’t matter. And so here’s what I want any of your listeners to know, at this moment, you should be happy because you saved yourself. You listened to your intuition. This is getting it out of the way quickly. I wasn’t sad about it. I wasn’t miserable about it. I wasn’t like, “Oh, it’s my fault,” or “Oh, why am I so—”

T.H.: You weren’t invested in it yet. You got yourself at the very beginning.

Carmindy: You’re not invested. What I did is, the next day, I simply sent a text message to him saying, “I have two questions for you. Number one, again, how long have you been legally divorced? And number two, does your wife still live in the house you live in?” He immediately wrote back, “I’m going to call you. We need to speak live.” I wrote back, “No—”

T.H.: There’s your answer.

Carmindy: “—very simple questions.” Because you don’t want to get on the phone and have them start weaving a tale or trying to convince you. It’s very straightforward. An hour goes by and he doesn’t respond. Then all of a sudden, I get a novel. “I’m sorry I lied to you. I was afraid I would scare you off. It’s complicated. She’s crazy. She’s got pitbull lawyers. She wants the house.” I simply wrote back, “I am not interested in your mess. You lied to me from the get go. So much for being an open book. Goodbye.” And I blocked him. Basically, what the story is here is you always have to listen to your gut. Ask the questions as many times as it takes to make you feel comfortable and you know you’re getting the right answer. I think so many women, when they get back into the dating scene after being divorced, don’t want to scare off the guy, so they don’t ask all the important questions, which is ridiculous. If you want to have a future, you need to ask those important questions right up front. You need to get to the truth right up front. You need somebody telling you the truth right up front. If he would have said, “I’m in a messy divorce. It’s complicated,” it’s my choice then if I want to be involved with somebody that’s in the process.

T.H.: Absolutely.

Carmindy: I don’t want to be because I’m way past that process. I know how difficult it is. Nobody should be messing around with romance when you’re going through the thick of it.

T.H.: Also, for any of you who haven’t listened to Carmindy’s previous interview on exEXPERTS in Divorce etc…, we will put it in the show notes, but lying was a big part of your first marriage.

Carmindy: Correct.

T.H.: And once you go through that to the degree that you did, and I also, the magnitude of lies from my ex—

Carmindy: Yes.

T.H.: —like, you have your lying meter up or whatever, like the radar is out?

Carmindy: Yeah.

T.H.: You can spot it a mile away. The only person that you’re trying to fool is yourself.

Carmindy: That’s correct.

T.H.: Because you’re like, “Oh, no, this guy’s different. This is different this time. It still doesn’t feel good, but I think—” Don’t try to convince yourself that something’s better than it is. It’s not.

Carmindy: That’s exactly right. That’s right. Listen to that intuition and be so comfortable and proud of who you are, by yourself individually, that it’s a gift that you’re giving yourself to somebody else. It’s not the other way around. I think we get so worried, “Oh, when is he going to call me back? Does he like me? Is he going to choose or pick me?” No, what about you? You need to choose or pick him. You need to decide when to call him back. You have to take the reins of your own life. That’s when this doesn’t become a sad story, but yet a happy story and a proud story that you saw the red flags. You were able to sidestep a bad decision early on based on your past experiences.

T.H.: Right, and take it as a lesson. Listen, Carmindy and I have made tons of mistakes in relationships after divorce and all of these other things. So just chalk it up to a lesson. Just if you don’t learn in the first time, then keep your eyes open for the next time because you’re going to make mistakes. When you come out into the dating world, it’s like your second first date, your second first kiss. My standards were so low. I just wanted someone to make me feel pretty. Then when some guy tried to take my hand across the street, I pulled my hand away from him. And I remember it. I don’t remember a lot of things in my life, but I remember that, saying to myself, “You know what? I might not be ready to date.” Make sure that when you put yourself out there, you can test the waters a little bit, but don’t compromise your own self respect and dignity, because you will get burned. You will totally get burned.

Carmindy: You will. Never be afraid to state what it is that you are looking for. The reason why I say that is because if it scares him off, then he’s not the right person. By the way, it might not be him that you’re looking for. So if you say, “I’m interested in getting remarried,” or “I really want to have a solid partner,” it might not be with him. But by stating what it is you’re looking for, you’re at least getting through all the BS with the other people. Because if you state what you want, and somebody runs for the hills, good! It takes time. If they stick around going, “Oh, this is interesting.” One of the things this gentleman asked me in the beginning was, “What are you looking for?” I said, “I do not know yet. I don’t know if I’m looking for a friendship or a relationship.”

T.H.: That’s what I was going to say. You may not even know.

Carmindy: And I was honest. “I don’t know yet.” So when he was telling me he wanted to take me all these places, I was like, interesting… When I said I don’t know what I want yet, and he’s already doing this. Make sure when you start dating that you’re honest about what you’re looking for, and they’re honest about what they’re looking for, and everybody knows each other’s stage of where they’re at in life—if it’s going through the divorce, after the divorce, thinking about a divorce. I mean, listen, if two consensual people want to get together in the middle of a heated divorce that they’re both having on the other end, that’s their choice.

T.H.: Totally.

Carmindy: But be honest about it.

T.H.: Be honest. And so we’re going to take a quick break here. But when we come back, I want to hear about your friend.

Carmindy: Yes.

T.H.: So when Jess and I were getting divorced from our exes, we hoped someone would take us by the hand and make sure we didn’t make any of these mistakes like these dating situations, dealing with our ex, with friends, with money, you name it. So you’re in luck, just like building exEXPERTS for you, we also created a free Divorce Rulebook for you. We share what we wish we knew back then so you don’t make the same mistakes we did. If you want a copy, all you have to do is visit www.exexperts.com. It’s all right there for you. You don’t know what you don’t know, but the exEXPERTS do. Okay, Carmindy, what kind of friend is this? Like, what the hell?

Carmindy: That’s the other thing. People said, “A friend set you up on this?” Well, it’s somebody that I don’t know well, so that’s the first thing. She had met this person years ago through business and doesn’t know him incredibly well, saw him recently, and he told her he was divorced and that if she knew of anyone that that he would like dating in New York City, any good women around. So he also lied to her. It wasn’t necessarily her fault.

T.H.: Oh, so she’s single too?

Carmindy: No, she’s married, but he ran into her at a work event. He’s like, “By the way, I’m single now. I’m divorced. If you know of any friends you can introduce me to.” So then we run into a party, me and her, and she goes, “Oh, I think I have a guy for you,” and that’s where the setup happened. When the lies begin like this from a man, make sure that everybody that was involved knows that this went on, so it doesn’t happen again.

T.H.: Right, right. So did you confront her?

Carmindy: I let everybody know this guy is still married.

T.H.: What did she say?

Carmindy: “Good to know” and they won’t introduce [them]. I think the problem is so many people want to set you up. They want to play Cupid, and it makes you excited because there’s like, “Oh, a single guy and a single girl and—”

T.H.: Right, “I made a love connection.” Yeah.

Carmindy: It’s a love connection. But be cautious before you set people up. Make sure who you’re setting that person up with is the real deal and that you know them. I think that’s the lesson too. I didn’t know her that well. I think I would trust people that I know better.

T.H.: Yeah, but I would just like to believe that most people would be honest anyway when setting somebody up.

Carmindy: Correct.

T.H.: I would like to believe that she really thought he was divorced.

Carmindy: Oh, she did. I believe she truly did.

T.H.: Okay. Okay.

Carmindy: She truly believed that he was divorced and thought, “Wow, this is great.” So yeah, I have no fault for her. But yeah, and unfortunately, like you’ve been lied to, or I’ve been lied to, I don’t have any time for it. The quicker I find out if you’re a liar, the better it is for me because I can go on living my happy life and wait for the right person to come along that’s going to be truthful. Because I’d rather have hard truths that—I’m a grown woman, I can work through them. But the lies, you don’t start off a relationship that way ever.

T.H.: I was separated from my ex for about eight months, and I went to a friend’s 40th. So this is a while ago. There was a guy there who I grew up with. He goes, “I have a great guy to set you up with.” I remember telling him, “Don’t put me in somebody else’s shit storm.”

Carmindy: That’s right.

T.H.: I know everybody in this area. I don’t really know this guy, but I know of him. I’m like, “If he’s going through something bad, I don’t need somebody else’s problems.” I was just getting into the thick of my own crap with my ex and his fiancée moving here from California, all these things. He goes, “No, no, no, a great guy. He’s in his own house. He’s separated from her.” And he was. He was in his own house. So the reason this guy set me up with this, let’s say his name’s Peter, is because this guy was screwing Peter’s wife.

Carmindy: Oh my gosh.

T.H.: So I was being used as a pawn and a distraction.

Carmindy: Like, “Look over here!”

T.H.: Right. This guy Peter was so upset to be separated from his wife and everything. I was getting breadcrumbs from him. Carmindy, I literally would go to my therapist, and she’d be like, “How’s it going with Peter?” I’d be like, “Well, we watch movies.” She goes, “Well, do you get dinner?” I go, “No, he only gave me an English muffin. That’s all he had in the house.” So he from that point on has always been referred to as the English Muffin Man.

Carmindy: Oh, my God.

T.H.: That’s all I got.

Carmindy: That is really crumbs.

T.H.: Wait. Oh, no, it gets better. Right, it’s literally breadcrumbs. Then we go away for his 40th birthday. It’s so romantic at this gorgeous place, right? But he never takes me out even to go somewhere away from town. So it’s all secretive. Come Christmas time, and he ghosted me. I was like, “What is going on here? We’re supposed to be talking blah, blah, blah.” I knew in my gut. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. I was so sick in my stomach. His wife called me when I got off the plane to come back home from my Christmas break with my kids, and cursed me out. “I’m with my husband. You’re a cheater. You ruined my marriage.” I mean, clearly not, right? Both have issues. Anyway, long story short, everybody, don’t get pulled into somebody else’s shit storm. Carmindy literally pulled out her own life jacket and stayed away from it. I was brand spanking new into the dating world, coming from a really horrible marriage with a man who was engaged to somebody else before I found out about the cheating. And so just be really careful with yourself. Because I felt it, I knew it, but I was like, “Oh my God, maybe I met the guy. I don’t have to date ever again.” I was caught up in all the crap that Carmindy is saying, “Don’t get caught up in it.”

Carmindy: Don’t get caught up. You have to be so comfortable. Like your story, I got set up on one date with somebody who already had their crap. And so it was over the summer, and somebody said, “Oh, I have the perfect guy. He’s your age. He lives in the area.” I go on a date with this guy, and it’s in a group of people on a boat. He ignores me the entire time and just doesn’t seem very interested. And so the next day, my friend calls and said, “How did the date go?” I said, “He wasn’t interested. He ignored me the entire time.” She goes, “Well, he only usually dates very, very young girls in their 20s.” I said, “Well, why did you set me up with him?” They said, “Well, we wanted him to change his ways.” I said, “Don’t make me—”

T.H.: You’re supposed to be the lesson?

Carmindy: I’m the lesson? I go, “No, no, no. I mean, thanks, I appreciate the compliment that you would think that me at almost—”

T.H.: But it’s not.

Carmindy: But if he’s a mess already, don’t set me up with a mess. I want somebody that’s confident and comfortable dating a woman my age. You got to make sure that you yourself are comfortable being alone, you’re happy with yourself, you’re happy, and you can literally pay attention to red flags and intuition. I say quiet meditation is very important because you really vibe with people. Like you said, you had a gut feeling and you felt sick to your stomach. Why do we ignore that as women? Why do we ignore our gut?

T.H.: Because you’re afraid. It’s so much easier to ignore it and believe that the shiny toy out there, like if I ignore all the other stuff and I just focus on this tiny thing of an English muffin, which was literally guys, that was it. That was our date. I got an English muffin, and I was still happy with that. Just really be honest with where you’re where you are sitting right now. If you’re not where you want to be, then don’t sacrifice yourself and your good heart and your warm soul and your love. Don’t waste it on somebody like that who doesn’t deserve you. We’re going to keep telling you that.

Carmindy: You are worth so much more. You’re worth so much more. Here’s the thing, we are all love and light on the inside, and we are all connected. You don’t need an outside source to love you to be worthy. Love comes in so many forms: love of your children, love of your family, love of your friends, or love of a pet. True magical love comes in so many forms. It doesn’t only have to be romantic love.

T.H.: No.

Carmindy: It comes in so many different ways. And so once you know that, then you open yourself up to the right timing, the divine timing of when you’re supposed to meet this person. But if you force a square peg into a round hole and take an English muffin, Oh, honey, no, no, no, no, no. You’re going to find yourself on another divorce pretty soon, if that’s the case.

T.H.: No joke. Listen, I also believe, and we are doing a podcast about male cleansing and female cleansing, if you need to take a cleansing time after you separate or have a breakup to really get your shit together. I’m going to find out more about it, but I think that me putting myself out there and dating a little bit—and I did do online dating—tested myself, like how much further have I come? But I do believe in the universe. The man who’s my forever, I met him after I ended a five year relationship, because I was on a dating tear. I was using the apps. It was like an adventure. I had this guy on the Upper West Side, this guy on the Lower East Side, New Jersey, New York, whatever. The man who I’m with now was among those who I was speaking with. But I got caught up in some guy who sounded so intriguing. I literally was looking at myself in the mirror and I’m like, “You’re out of control, T.H. You are out of control. You like somebody you’ve never even met. Shut it down.”

Carmindy: Mm-hmm. You’re creating your own fantasy in your own head.

T.H.: I shut it all down. I was out of control. I don’t even know what I was saying to anybody anymore. I didn’t even remember their names. It was stupid. The man who I’m with actually only lived a mile from my house for 30 years—never met him.

Carmindy: Isn’t that crazy?

T.H.: He knew my kids. He knew my best friend’s kids. He coached. He’s a builder. He’s like, “You can’t go for a drink?” I go, “Listen, I’m just really busy, okay?” So we had texted, so I knew he had gotten a new dog, I had gotten a new dog. I went to pick up my dog after a business trip at the vet. The vets before COVID was loud, and dogs are barking, everyone’s pulling—Carmindy, the room went silent. This man walks in and he goes, “How’s your trip?” He winked at me, and I looked at the dog and I was like, “Oh, Frank?”

Carmindy: Yeah.

T.H.: I was wearing Uggs and a ski jacket and sweatpants. I just came back from a huge event.

Carmindy: Yeah.

T.H.: That was the first day of five and a half years of us together.

Carmindy: And that’s the magic.

T.H.: And that was magic. Honestly, it wasn’t love at first sight, but there was something different about him.

Carmindy: Yes.

T.H.: And I had to pay attention. I trusted my gut to just at least pay attention.

Carmindy: Be open. Yes. I think also too, we have this idea of what we think our guy is supposed to be based from being teenage girls. I mean, come on, we’re grown women. You have to evolve into choosing a man based on would you be friends with this person? Instead of like, “Oh, he’s just—oh, my God, my heart’s pitter pattering. He makes me so hot and bothered.” No. Would you be friends with this person? Would you choose to really be close to this person? Then you think about a relationship in a romantic way.

T.H.: I mean he fit none of my filters, none of them. I was like, minimum 5’10”, goes to the gym, traditional job. The only thing he had in common with my filter is that he had kids and he was divorced. He’s 5’5″ on a good day, he never goes to the gym, he works in construction, he’s super creative, and he is the most perfect man for me.

Carmindy: Perfect. You know, my grandmother used to always say, “They’re all the same height lying down.”

T.H.: Oh my God, we are going to end on that. Carmindy, thank you so much for being on Divorce etc…, for sending this public service announcement with me. We’re going to talk more about dating with Carmindy and catch up with her again in a few months, just to stay in touch because we love Carmindy. If you enjoyed this episode of the Divorce etc… podcast with the exEXPERTS today, can you help a girl out? Please take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review. It helps us and helps others going through divorce find us and the resources they need. For more about Carmindy and her amazing makeup, Carmindy Beauty, on Amazon, check out the show notes. And of course, share this episode with anyone you know who can benefit from listening. Have a great day.